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View Diary: Just How Fu¢ked Up Is the US Medical System? (158 comments)

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  •  absolutely (0+ / 0-)

    we needed single payer decades ago, and it remains the only true answer.

    and we will get there.

    but dismantling the entire health insurance industry was never going to happen overnight, and stating falsehoods about the PPACA gets us nowhere.

    Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

    by Cedwyn on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 06:47:10 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  That is what the endgame will be, IMO... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      indres

      When people get a full taste of for-profit insurance and the needless bureaucratic crap that VA/Medicare/Medicaid users have to endure, they will beat a drum for single payer so loud it will shake D.C to its foundations.

      It's just a shame that we will have to wait decades for this to happen when we had the numbers to make it happen in 2009 (Yes, yes...I know...blue dogs and all that shit. But it would have been a good fight to have nevertheless).

      Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

      by Love Me Slender on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 06:57:15 AM PDT

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    •  But does "single payer" work? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Justanothernyer

      anywheres?  For example, the oft-cited example of Canada doesn't have that . . . . .what they have is  * universal coverage * - maybe * that * should be the policy objective?

      •  If we did have it, it wouldn't be called... (0+ / 0-)

        "single payer". It would be called UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE...which is something the public will line up to support after their happy experiences with the insurance industry.

        Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

        by Love Me Slender on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 07:08:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe I am misunderstanding (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        indres, Justanothernyer

        In what way is Canada's system not single payer?

        •  In the way the government(s) pay (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Justanothernyer

          about 2/3rds of the cost, and other entities (private insurance, patients out of their own pockets) pay the rest . . . .

          •  That is not exactly how it works. (4+ / 0-)
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            Cedwyn, indres, Pluto, Justanothernyer

            Yes, that is the breakdown of total expenses, but it obscures the way it works: when the government plan covers something, it generally covers 100% of it.  For example, going to see your GP - 100% covered.  Getting medically necessary surgery - 100% covered.  However, in most provinces dental and vision are either not included in the government plan at all or only for certain groups (children, seniors etc). So for example: dental check up: 0% covered.  

            The Canada Health Act prohibits any sort of copayment or deductible, but only for physician and hospital services.  Archaic and arbitrary distinctions?  Yes.  But it's still "single payer" for the services covered.

            •  Still, it's NOT "single payer" (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Justanothernyer

              another biggie that is not covered is prescription drugs.

              Plus, hospitals seem to be seeking private donation (or are they just naming facilities and wards after people and corporations capriciously?)

              •  It is single payer in that 100% of insured (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Mr Robert, indres, Pluto

                services are covered.  And yes, you're right, prescription drugs are a huge example of non-insured services.  

                And yes hospitals seek donations and do lotteries etc.  Canada has been exposed to the same neo-liberal dogma as the rest of the world and had drastic budget cuts in the 90's, and the damage has only been partially repaired.  Donations do contribute to funding projects/wings/research, but nobody's medical procedures are denied due to lack of donations.  The donations are not connected to service delivery, which is paid for by billing the provincial insurance agency.

                Canada is FAR from the best single payer system though, no question of that.  The NHS is more comprehensive, but there is still supplementary private insurance like in Canada.

    •  We will never get there (0+ / 0-)

      so long as the Democratic party occupies the "left" side of our political spectrum.

      The Democrats killed single-payer last time. The Republicans didn't even need to fire a shot.

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