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View Diary: California discovers hidden price tag of outsourcing Bay Bridge to China (282 comments)

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  •  Thank you (5+ / 0-)

    Ed Schultz and the iron workers union have been pounding on this because South Korea's government is about to destroy an iron plant in Ohio as part of the "open trade' treaty that lets other governments take markets while the US loses not only jobs but the ability to make good iron.  The Asian work and product are inferior.  This should be a national security issue.  Sad the Bay Area people  pay the price.  My son included.  Even with a corrupt Congress, the President can say public works, the government and the military need to buy American although we seem to have no ability to produce anything anymore including quality iron we are making at this plant that is closing.

    •  Why are Asian products de-facto inferior? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Loge, charliehall2

      Honest question.

      When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

      by PhillyJeff on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:19:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  especially for commodity products - (0+ / 0-)

        although over the long term, protecting American businesses from competition hurts their own quality, as they don't have as much to fear from losing business since protectionist laws give them a captive market.  The right remedy for too much outsourcing isn't a return to total self-sufficiency.  Anyway, this isn't a case about cheap labor, so much as bad industrial design and management, but to the extent these issues are being conflated it's the headline and the framing of the issue as scary scary China that's to blame.   I'd like to see the state take a bigger role in the construction itself since it's putting up the money instead of letting contractors run wild, and as a civic infrastructure project, I want the state to pay a high wage, but basic steel and iron inputs?  Buy from whomever.  South Korea didn't make Caltrans do a lousy job ignoring risks it was aware of at the time.  The irony is you find the loudest objections to treaties that would actually address the one-sidedness of protectionist countries like those in Asia, though the devil is always in the details.

        Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

        by Loge on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:08:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We need VATs and in-lieu of tariff deposits (0+ / 0-)

          to level the playing field. As it is now, USA's producers are being forced to subsidize their foreign competition.

          BTW: does your analysis include externalities?

          The irony is you find the loudest objections to treaties that would actually address the one-sidedness of protectionist countries like those in Asia, though the devil is always in the details. - Loge

          NO, the way to "address protectionist countries like those in Asia" is to institute VATs (replacing sales taxes) and an in-lieu-of-tariffs deposit to reign in transfer pricing scams - reforms that would not target Asia in particular but that would aim exactly at leveling the playing field for USA's producers!

          TPP's "details" daemons include radical revision of some of USA's fundamental laws!

          TPP is no different than the others - nothing to do with increasing efficiency ... unless you count the race to the bottom that labor is subjected to as "efficiency" ... and did I ask if your analysis included externalities? (I think not!)

          •  could you point to a source on the VAT argument, (0+ / 0-)

            preferably written with some kind of English syntax.  It's not a matter of not grasping the economics, it's that i don't feel like deducing what your argument would be if you knew how to write.  

            Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

            by Loge on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 05:52:37 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  My Lenovo laptop and Samsung smartphone (0+ / 0-)

        are amazing products!

      •  Okay, but you're missing the real question (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LillithMc

        Nobody here has said that Asain products are inferior! Some of them are ... some of them are downright poison (literally) ... but others are great. What isn't great is how do you get reimbursed in court by a China company that disappears into the cesspool of the failures of global capital. Also not so great is the imbalance ... the unlevel playing field where USA's producers are forced to subsidize their foreign competitors! Also, not so great when China corners a market and establishes de facto global monopolies ... monopolies were not a good idea back when the USA was an insulated market ... and still not a good idea globally!

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