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View Diary: McCain Makes the Case: Iraq is first, last, and always Bush's Tragic Legacy (162 comments)

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  •  100% hamstrung... (5+ / 0-)

    leaving 40 million people without healthcare ins. (to name just one)

    And we all know how next-to-impossible congress made that, without war crimes trials.

    If we lust after prosecutions out of Obama's DoJ, maybe we should focus on Wall Street's Robber Barons.

    You're right. Iraq is the Bush Dynasty's Legacy, the immorality lies there.

    "Show up. Pay attention. Tell the truth. And don't be attached to the results." -- Angeles Arrien

    by Sybil Liberty on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 06:23:03 AM PDT

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    •  and even in the Wall Street area... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Heart of the Rockies

      the path is not clear in a system where all of those in elected office are dependent on the monied classes.

      "It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness." (Adlai Stevenson in praise of Eleanor Roosevelt) (Glowing Candle Avatar Adopted in 1986)

      by murphthesurf3 on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 06:34:09 AM PDT

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      •  exactly (0+ / 0-)

        Still, I do love hearing Elizabeth Warren torment them repeatedly with the question. It will be interesting to see how far that takes her...

        "Show up. Pay attention. Tell the truth. And don't be attached to the results." -- Angeles Arrien

        by Sybil Liberty on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 06:41:35 AM PDT

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        •  She may have enough of a popular base to (0+ / 0-)

          persevere but for many pols that is not an option. Despite Cantor's lost this stat remains. In 94 percent of all elections, the candidate with the most money wins.

          "It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness." (Adlai Stevenson in praise of Eleanor Roosevelt) (Glowing Candle Avatar Adopted in 1986)

          by murphthesurf3 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 06:12:04 AM PDT

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          •  Warren is proving herself a most excellent (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            silverfoxcruiser

            fundraiser. Populism is making a comeback on both the left and the right, which may account in part, for Cantor's defeat. (There have been a couple of diaries here on this) I feel we need to be concentrating on a "Wellstone/Warren" populist-agenda because a teabagger populist-agenda is just one more lunatic-agenda.  

            Warren down in TX, fundraising & stumping for Alison Grimes? A good sign.

            my 2 pennies

            "Show up. Pay attention. Tell the truth. And don't be attached to the results." -- Angeles Arrien

            by Sybil Liberty on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 08:09:51 AM PDT

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            •  Tell me more about the Wellstone/Warren..... (0+ / 0-)

              populist agenda. I am interested. You take on Warren is one with which I generally agree.

              "It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness." (Adlai Stevenson in praise of Eleanor Roosevelt) (Glowing Candle Avatar Adopted in 1986)

              by murphthesurf3 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 06:48:45 AM PDT

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      •  And more importantly (0+ / 0-)

        the whole problem with what was going on is that vast swathes of it were not criminal.

        It damn well should have been. But it wasn't. And you can't prosecute people for actions you don't like which were not in breach of any law.

        •  And for that we have to bow to the efforts of .... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          silverfoxcruiser

          Mr. Reagan, Mr. Bush, Mr. Clinton, Mr. Bush and their Congresses. "It seemed like a good idea at the time" as one firewall after another was torn down in deregulation fever.

          "It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness." (Adlai Stevenson in praise of Eleanor Roosevelt) (Glowing Candle Avatar Adopted in 1986)

          by murphthesurf3 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 06:13:32 AM PDT

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    •  No republicans voted for the ACA anyway (0+ / 0-)

      So how would it be any different?

      The dems had a supermajority, or close enough.

      No War but Class War

      by AoT on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 07:19:06 AM PDT

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      •  You wouldn't be having congressional hearings (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        murphthesurf3

        on domestic issues, including healthcare reform, if you were prosecuting the insidious war crimes of the previous administration. The prosecution of bush/cheney war crimes, satisfying as that might have been, would have been a historical all-consuming shark-fest. Capitol Hill would have been in utter chaos for years. Nobody on the hill would have been thinking about the needs of the American people.

        Bush/Cheney destroyed their countries and ours. We all know it, a pound of flesh might be satisfying for awhile, but in the long run, not nearly as satisfying as ACA providing health care coverage to folks who've never had it before.

        "Show up. Pay attention. Tell the truth. And don't be attached to the results." -- Angeles Arrien

        by Sybil Liberty on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 07:41:05 AM PDT

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        •  You can do more than one thing at a time (0+ / 0-)

          You can in fact have hearing and push through a law at the same time. Just as important, prosecuting for war crimes, specifically torture, would not require hearings. The previous administration had admitted to using torture. They called it a different name, but they explained what they did and it was torture. So you can go after that without involving congress.

          No War but Class War

          by AoT on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 07:44:51 AM PDT

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          •  Elizabeth de la Vega, former federal prosector (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Yellow Canary, murphthesurf3

            & author of US v Bush, on congressional hearings:

            [ ] The President (bush) will not be held accountable for misrepresenting the prewar intelligence unless and until Congress conducts hearings similar to the Watergate hearings. As yet, however, we seem painfully incapable of reaching that point. We are like inept tennis partners, collectively letting the ball slip by in the no-man's-land between the service line and the baseline, or in this case, between the legal and the political.

            Perhaps more important, however, is that, although the evidence of wrongdoing is overwhelming, the facts are so complicated -- far more so than those that prompted the Watergate hearings--that it's impossible to have a productive debate about them in the political sphere. Indeed, modern-day spin has vanquished substance so thoroughly that even the most well-grounded charge of deliberate deception is often considered more despicable than the deception itself.[ ]

            http://www.tomdispatch.com/...

            "Show up. Pay attention. Tell the truth. And don't be attached to the results." -- Angeles Arrien

            by Sybil Liberty on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 08:24:59 AM PDT

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          •  There would be hearings on everything (0+ / 0-)

            Perhaps not in the first two years, but then 2010 came along and the House became a GOP tool.

            "It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness." (Adlai Stevenson in praise of Eleanor Roosevelt) (Glowing Candle Avatar Adopted in 1986)

            by murphthesurf3 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 06:33:02 AM PDT

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        •  Agreed recc'd (0+ / 0-)

          and would any administration want to set itself up for a similar circus in its future?

          "It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness." (Adlai Stevenson in praise of Eleanor Roosevelt) (Glowing Candle Avatar Adopted in 1986)

          by murphthesurf3 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 06:32:04 AM PDT

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      •  No supermajority for 90 percent of the time (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        silverfoxcruiser

        The Blue Dogs, empty Minnesota seat, sick Byrd and Kennedy.

        "It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness." (Adlai Stevenson in praise of Eleanor Roosevelt) (Glowing Candle Avatar Adopted in 1986)

        by murphthesurf3 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 at 06:31:02 AM PDT

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    •  Don't follow this either -- (0+ / 0-)

      If he had prosecuted, he would have been labeled as an "angry black man" along with all the other canards!  I don't think it was because it was the avenue of least resistance, but that decision was about what was best for the USA.  It has been a very fine, delicate line he has been (socially and diplomatically) forced to follow.  I believe he has done the best thing he could have done for us as citizens.  History will judge Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Condi and Colin....and it won't be praiseworthy.  President Obama has not engaged in the drumbeats of war -- do you think that Romney would have done the same?      

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