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View Diary: President Obama statement on Iraq (247 comments)

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  •  Can someone please explain the logic of trying (28+ / 0-)

    ... to stand up an Iraqi military that displays no inclination to stand up on it's own?

    Never mind the fact that the government, for all intents and purposes, doesn't exist. So who would be bombing for, exactly?

    As I noted yesterday in this comment, the U.S. knew way back in 2005-2006 that the Iraqi military was a figment of everyone's imagination.

    Of course, that didn't stop us from funneling billions into the coffers of well-connected defense contractors the Iraqi army.

    What a sick fucking joke...

    "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

    by Bob Johnson on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 09:00:20 AM PDT

    •  Deja (Vietnam) vu (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      incognita, CenPhx, oldhippie
    •  It is a sick joke of tragic proportions. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lovepolitics2008

      But the world shouldn't abandon Iraqi civilians to ISIS. This group was so extreme and murderous that Al Qaeda disavowed them. This is a legit crisis and many innocent people are dying.

      Many more will until ISIS is stopped.

      •  I just want to hear a realistic course of action. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dinotrac, gmats, CenPhx, jlb1972, Piren

        "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

        by Bob Johnson on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 09:28:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What likely will happen (13+ / 0-)

          is some airstrikes in support of Iranian troops in Iraq, but no official acknowledgment that we are coordinating with Iran.  This crisis could actually end up bringing Iran closer to us and help lead to an agreement with them on other issues.  

          Saudia Arabia may be left out.

          I also do not assume that the Iraquis cannot fight.  I suspect many troops in the north and west were Sunni.  The Shia will fight to the death to protect their holy sites.  Iran already has sent troops and will likely send more.

          And ISIL has not reached Bagdad.  

          President Obama clearly feels he has time on this.

          I'm glad he is president in situations like this.   We're not sending troops back in.  

          Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

          by TomP on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 09:43:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Agree on all points except the praise of Obama. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TomP, jlb1972, high uintas

            Let's see how this plays out before judging his performance in this crisis. But the rest of your analysis of events is spot on.

          •  Oh, that sounds convoluted and completely (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TomP, Mr Robert, oldhippie, Piren, jfern

            ... fucked up.

            We will kill more Iraqi civilians in order to coordinate with Iran which is pitted, by proxy, against our supposed ally, Saudi Arabia, which is likely funding the Sunni insurgency, just as they did when we were in Iraq, an insurgency that led to the vast majority of American casualties, not to mention the (unofficial) Saudi support for the 9-11 terrorists.

            What a fucked up mess.

            "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

            by Bob Johnson on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 10:18:32 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The Bush/Cheney legacy. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FindingMyVoice

              Sort of a fascinating chess game, except the deaths are real.

              Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

              by TomP on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 10:28:23 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Remember this ultimately comes down to (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TomP

              a religious war trumping the politics. Iran will support the Shia government even tho Iraq and Iran have really bad blood.

              For us it is the concern over the terrorist aspect of ISIS, a Sunni group. In our case politics totally trumps religion and our supporting Iranian troops is only to stop the march of ISIS.

              If there is a rapprochement with Iran out of it, so much the better. But then Israel will be pissed...shit this stuff is complicated.

              Some humans ain't human some people ain't kind. They lie through their teeth with their head up their behind. You open up their hearts and here's what you'll find - Some humans ain't human some people ain't kind. John Prine

              by high uintas on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 10:47:11 AM PDT

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          •  That's not happening. (0+ / 0-)

            I doubt Maliki is going to get any more than humanitarian aid and an offer of helicopters to fly him to Basra from Obama.

            It's touching how people around here desperately want to believe that we're actually not in a running strategic global dispute principally with the regimes in Teheran, Moscow, and Beijing.  

          •  Maybe its time to.. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TomP

            abandon the Saudis as our anti-American Islamic fanatic oil rich ally of choice and switch to Iran.

        •  Any "realistic" action will be imperfect (0+ / 0-)

          with some unintended consequences.

          In real life, there are never perfect solutions. There are pros and cons in everything. Big "cons" in every solution in this case.

          One thing for sure: the President will have some impossible decisions to make, and will be criticized by BOTH sides.

      •  You might try doing something about the funders (6+ / 0-)

        Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

        •  the House of Saud has its fist around our heart (7+ / 0-)

          They control the flow of the black gold, we need it. Especially with Iraq unstable, we need their ability to make up for lost production.

          This is the price we pay for cheap oil: unleashing religious whackjobs all across the Middle East, letting them rampage and kill and maim and blow shit up.

          Actually it already cost us here at home: there was almost certainly high-level Saudi involvement in the 9/11 attacks. Someone helped the hijackers (mostly Saudis) settle in the States and get flight training. Who? There had to be powerful movers and shakers in the Kingdom that helped them.

          George W. Bush, the Saudis' choice for president (the reporter Craig Unger estimates that the Bush dynasty did $1.4 billion worth of business with the Saudis) authorized the bin Laden family to fly out of America right after 9/11. This has never, never been explained.

          Had the truth been known, I believe we would have gone to war with Saudi Arabia. That would have destroyed our economy. So it was hidden. But now things are heating up again, Saudi funding of terrorism is causing open chaos in Syria and Iraq--and it may no longer be possible to hide the truth for much longer.

          "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

          by limpidglass on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 09:51:52 AM PDT

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          •  We control the flow. (0+ / 0-)

            There's this little pinch point called the Strait of Hormuz, which we've been patrolling.  Iran likes to threaten to close that strait.  What if we threatened to let them?

            "Politics should be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage." -- Lucille Ball

            by Yamaneko2 on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 10:18:07 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Look at a map. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              limpidglass

              Look at the terrain on the Iranian side. Rugged mountains. Perfect for concealing anti-ship missiles. Which are small anyway. Look at the shipping channels. They have to be dredged. Northbound channel and southbound channel. Look across the strait to the emirates and the oil fields. We don't want too much mess for our friends there.

              Iran does not need to make threats. Announced policy and standing orders to those who man the missiles is go ahead and fire on your own authority if you ever lose command-and-control communications. One ship of any type sunk in a channel and it wil be months and major international conferences and new treaties before anything moves. Sink a ship in channel and it will be physically impossible to move ships until complex salvage work is completed. In the meantime gasoline will be over $10 a gallon if you can get it at all. Probable there would be an instant worldwide depression. This is why we do not fuck with Iran.

        •  "You might try doing something about the funders" (0+ / 0-)

          Exactly , the Arab League refuses to address this issue in a sane way ,  and then America is suppose to go in and fix it?

          Obama and all nations in that area should hold the arab nations up and in the spot light and ask them " what they are going to do ? "  , then hold them accountable for being dysfunctional cluster &ucks  

          But that would Wall St a sad , so we can not do that

          Beer Drinkers & Hell Raisers

          by Patango on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 09:52:34 AM PDT

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      •  The civilians in Mosul seemed to prefer ISIS to... (0+ / 0-)

        The civilians in Mosul seemed to prefer ISIS to the Iraqi government, they only fled because they expect to be bombed.

    •  "Prop me up beside the Juke Box when I die!" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mr Robert

      Your question reminds me of that classic Country western song by Joe Diffie.  Yeah, what good does it do to prop up the Iraqi military when it does not want to fight?  The way I understand it, Saddam was a secularist and really didn;t want to get all that involved.  We defeated Saddam, and we installed Malaki and Malaki was a Shia dissident.

      The army is composed primarily of Sunni and is not particularly interested in fighting to preserve a Shiite government, now the Shiite clerics are calling the army to resist Sunni militants, but why would they?

      And, in the United States, only McCain, Graham and the rest of the Republican caucus think that bombing everybody in Iraq would resolve anything other than making sure that everybody in Iraq hates America.  Great idea!

      Please, let's just leave and let them sort out their religious problems for themselves.  If anything, maybe we could send a peace making mission - without any arms, no military, no support - made up of Dick Cheney, Wolfowitz, Condoleeza Rice, George W. Bush, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity,  and the rest of the architects of this cluster and let the Iraqi clerics do with them as they wish.  

      Voters should select people to represent them in their government. People in government should not select people who may vote!

      by NM Ray on Fri Jun 13, 2014 at 10:12:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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