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  •  Apparently people just can't appreciate (17+ / 0-)

    the freedom they are receiving via the drones.

    Look, I tried to be reasonable...

    by campionrules on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:28:25 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  just ask people in Afghanistan, or Pakistan, (13+ / 0-)

      or Yemen, or the other half-dozen countries where we're raining down missiles on a daily basis.

      Drone warfare is only "antiseptic" for the side using the drones. And it's not "surgical" as its proponents claim--it's not like we actually check the accuracy of the "intelligence" we use to decide who gets taken out. If some tribal chieftain wants to settle a personal grudge, all he has to do is drop a dime on his rival to the CIA and poof! the guy goes up in smoke. The safer course for us is to bomb first and ask questions later.

      People were outraged when it came out that Nixon was secretly bombing Cambodia during the Vietnam War. Now we're secretly bombing everywhere, daily, for years and years and years, and we barely blink an eyelash.

      All because it's a drone doing the bombing, and not an airplane.

      "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

      by limpidglass on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:35:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  However, it's an acceptable use of force (8+ / 0-)

        by a Democratic President(See: Clinton and cruise missiles) and is tolerated by the Party because it's not 'real' war.

        I'm sure the parents of the dead, brown kid have a didn't opinion, but hey! Surgical!

        Look, I tried to be reasonable...

        by campionrules on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:38:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Why was it necessary to say "brown kid?" (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          KingBolete, hooper, dinotrac, AlexDrew

          We bombed Germany and western Europe in WWI and II. I don't understand the need to add race to an already terrible situation.

          We did nothing in Rwanda to the tears of many. Had we gone in, there would be people who claimed that we killed brown and black people.

          You can't fight terror with words! You can't fight people who are bent on killing their own with words and good thoughts!

          The people of this world have not advanced far enough to be able to stop warmongers without killing some innocents.

          It’s the Supreme Court, stupid! Followed by: It's always the Supreme Court! Progressives will win only when we convince a majority that they, too, are Progressive.

          by auapplemac on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 10:52:25 AM PDT

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      •  I need an explanation of the anti-drone debate... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        hooper, freakofsociety

        ...if you have good intelligence upon which to act and you can act without putting an American in harm's way then you do it.  There's no difference between a drone, a bomber, or a soldier with a gun in her hand.  

        If we're going to have a debate, let's have a debate on why the drones are being used, not the nature of the technology itself.  

        No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices. - Edward R. Murrow

        by CrazyHorse on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 11:21:46 AM PDT

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        •  Why not the nature of the technology? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          frostbite, maryabein, enhydra lutris

          Seems to me nobody objects when you talk about nuclear weapons -- and that's very specifically a discussion about the nature of the technology itself.

          When you make war antiseptic (even to only one side), don't you change the nature of war?
          Don't you isolate and insulate people from its effects?
          Does that not alter the moral equation?
          Does that not make war a more acceptable "solution"?

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 11:36:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think you are right that insulating the actors (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dinotrac, WilliamE, PurpleElectric

            (drone operators) from the actual field of combat presents a new problem with regard to their judgment, as has been proven by the videotaped released by Manning.

            Also, knowing that a US pilot won't be in harm's way changes the equation for the tactical command of the operation.

            I think the President is showing awareness of these issues in how he deals with this crisis.

            Doing nothing and letting ISIS launch a bloodbath in Baghdad or allowing another wave of sectarian slaughter to take over as in 2006-7 is also unacceptable.
            I also think Maliki's recalcitrance is showing that he's a puppet of Iran, and if the Iranians have their way, they will have their proxies slaughter anybody who gets in their business vis a vis Assad, Syria and Lebanon/Hezbollah.

            I'm not sure I have enough knowledge to decide what is the best policy here, I'm not advocating anything. I do think the Pres. is aware of these issues and is proceeding as cautiously as possible, rather than doing this "cowboy" style.
            I think the President's focus here is on a political solution that keeps total civil war from breaking out again, and that may involve de-clawing ISIS in the most surgical way possible, which would include drone strikes.

            I fully respect anyone who is opposed to any kind of war anywhere, no exceptions, but I'm not sure where I stand on this yet. I am glad President Obama is in charge and not Nuke McStinkypants.

            You can't make this stuff up.

            by David54 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:05:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm really glad that I'm not in charge. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              David54

              There is an opportunity to come through as a real hero here, but I don't know how, and I suspect the biggest component to looking the hero will be:

              a) Not doing something just plain butt-ugly stupid,
              b) getting real damned lucky.

              LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

              by dinotrac on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:45:57 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  yes no difference in scale or scope (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        freakofsociety

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