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View Diary: Krugman On Geithner: Saved the Economy But Left It Crippled (148 comments)

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  •  As someone who supported TARP (6+ / 0-)

    an thought there were 2 banks that were candidates for receivership, BoA and Citi, I find the entire discussion about that kind of weird.

    First, I don't see how you can declare anyone "right" or wrong" on the point. We didn;t nationalize ANY banks so we don't know what the result o such an approch would have been.

    Did we expect the aks to collapse f they were not placed in recieivership? Not that I am aware of. So Krugman's statement strikes me a just strange, not intellectual honesty.

    And I don;t know if Krugman touches on it, he wasn't particulalry good on the homeowner assistance issue imo, but I always felt that was Geithner's greatest and most tragic mistake.

    •  What's up with softer, gentler 2014 Krugman? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gooserock, The Wizard

      Does anyone know why he has spent the last few months softening his rhetoric against neo-liberals and pols?

      My theory is that he was trying to appear more centrist to audition for a role in a Hillary administration.

      But maybe it's something else. Strange indeed. Anyone?

      •  Well He Does Have an Employer Too. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JesseCW, corvo

        Is any major news and commentary medium not a neoliberal soapbox overall?

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Fri Jun 20, 2014 at 08:28:31 AM PDT

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      •  Is it possible he just realized he's wrong once in (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FG, duhban, Lying eyes

        a while? That he too is not all-knowing and wise and doesn't always get everything right?

        I've seen a few articles that kind of take him to the woodshed on his many failed predictions over the years ... which I think are a bit unfair, because anyone who makes a living making predictions will be wrong sometimes, but also when you make yourself a high-profile critic, you invite such comparisons of your record.

        The point is, Krugman has been wrong, quite often actually. He's made bad calls and given wrong advice on some key issues. One of these articles even went back to him saying in the 90s that internet commerce would be a fad. :) So maybe he's just decided to try to be more fair to those he attacks on a regular basis... feet of clay, human, no one is perfect... etc.

        I don't think anyone really believes that there was not more that could have and should have been done, and Geithner himself admitted as much in his book - if people want to play the game of being proven right by what these guys say now.

        There is an argument that congress wouldn't have passed an ideal stimulus regardless, and this gets to what frustrates me most about Krugman, he consistently fails to consider the politics of getting his ideal solutions implemented. Woulda, coulda, shoulda from the sidelines it seems to me. Easy to lob criticisms from there, but he refuses to work in government where he'd be tasked with actually getting things done his way. And as noted he's often wrong too. His opinion isn't the be-all end-all of any argument as far as I'm concerned, and I don't really get why people think he's all that.

        •  Because someone has to tell the truth. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jrooth

          What policy would work best?

          If we can't answer that, we don't even know what to work for.

          That's why people like Krugman matter. It's vital that people outside government constantly remind all of us, politicians included, what the best way is to resolve a problem.

          Take global warming. How to fix it? Stop burning fossil fuels.

          Scientists must keep saying it and saying it. Maybe, eventually, politicians can be made to implement the right solution.

          No economist in the history of time issues perfect predictions.

          Krugman always identifies his predictions as speculation, not truths. It is incorrect to insinuate otherwise. When it comes to analysis, Krugman has been right far more often than he has been wrong.

          Geithner was faulted for vapid neo-liberal lies, not poor predictions.

          None of this is brings us closer to an answer to why Krugman makes more centrist noises of late while continuing to slam Obama for poor first-term decisions.

          •  truth is meaningless if you can not implement it (0+ / 0-)

            and like CS that's what frustrates me about Krugman maybe he's learning that and why he has been more 'centrist'.

            I will point out that no one can answer what policy would work best because everyone's magic 8 ball is just as unreliable which is kind of ironic given Krugman's apology.

            Der Weg ist das Ziel

            by duhban on Fri Jun 20, 2014 at 10:24:15 AM PDT

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            •  Politics is not the art of truth. (0+ / 0-)

              It is the art of the possible.

              We need truth-tellers by which to judge politicians' efforts.

              There is a difference between analysis and speculation.

              Simple analysis told us that Geithner's policies were flawed.

              Everyone also engages in learned speculation. Careful thinkers like Krugman clearly identify when they do so, and cheerfully admit when their speculation does not come to fruition.

              Krugman did not apologize for his critique of Geithner or Obama.

              Because he was right.

              •  here's the thing (0+ / 0-)

                as long as the 'truth tellers' sit back and lob bombs as if it is some how 'helpful' I will remain skeptical about the worthiness of their efforts.

                There is the world as I wish it and then there is the world as it is. We can work for the world as it but we can only do while remaining aware of the world as it is.

                Der Weg ist das Ziel

                by duhban on Fri Jun 20, 2014 at 01:32:06 PM PDT

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                •  Global warming is scientific fact. (0+ / 0-)

                  Neo-liberal economic policies enrich the 1% and hurt everyone else.

                  These are truths. You can't wish them away.

                  If they appear to be "bombs" lobbed by crazies to you, the problem lies with your lens. Not with the truth-tellers.

                  •  I really wish you wouldn't view this as either/or (0+ / 0-)

                    there's a wealth of options and opinions inbetween the 2 positions that you are ignoring

                    Der Weg ist das Ziel

                    by duhban on Fri Jun 20, 2014 at 03:43:01 PM PDT

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                    •  Yes, between truth and policy many opinions lie. (0+ / 0-)

                      That is the entire point.

                      If we refuse to acknowledge truth and accredit truth-telling, then we give up the means to evaluate opinions and determine how close policy has come to optimal.

                      It's not a good thing to be so far gone as to deny the validity of truth (and valorize practicality as some sort of god in itself).

    •  That's what baffles me too. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Armando, JesseCW, cama2008, corvo

      Just because the "lender of last resort" approach averted total disaster doesn't mean nationalization wouldn't have done better.

      "Turns out I'm really good at killing people." - President Obama

      by jrooth on Fri Jun 20, 2014 at 08:21:46 AM PDT

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