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View Diary: Gaming out the potential Hobby Lobby decisions (130 comments)

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  •  I don't get it (0+ / 0-)

    I think Hobby Lobby wins the case outright.

    But, I don't understand how people reach the dire conclusions I see posted about this case all the time.

    Hobby Lobby is objecting to being required to pay insurance that covers "abortionfacients" (spelling?) - like the "morning after" pill.  

    They don't care, or at least, aren't taking any action against someone who uses the medication -- they just don't want the government to mandate that they have to participate in what they view as an immoral act by paying for it.

    The employee can still get the drug/procedure.  They can pick up the insurance to cover what is excluded.  After all, with the employer mandate endlessly delayed - H/L is under no obligation to provide their employees with any kind of health insurance.   But, they want the option to keep providing health insurance -- even though they aren't legally required to - which under normal circumstances we'd all applaud.  They simply feel that a government mandate to "kill" a fetus would violate their religious beliefs.

    If religion is truly protected under the First Amendment, I simply don't see how the Court could rule any other way -- when, the government by only applying this rule to companies with more than 50 employees doesn't view it as an urgent matter.  If they did - they would have applied to rule to every employer, no matter the size.

    •  keep trying- most of the rest of us have gotten (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BachFan, martydd, jessbell911, snazzzybird

      this.

      and if it helps- how come women are always the ones to have to work through everything and have to pay for their health care.
      reproduction is a HUMAN condition- something last i heard men benefit from too- they are born...

      any way that is just my view on just a part of this

    •  Do customers shop at (8+ / 0-)

      Our Lady of Hobby Lobby cathedral? No, they shop at a retail store. Hobby Lobby is a commercial business, not a religious institution. It has no more right to "freedom of religion" than does my pet rock. Their customers, employees, directors, and shareholders are all fully free to exercise their religious beliefs as individuals, however and whenever they want: attend a church service, read their chosen holy scriptures, dance naked in the moonlight as a druid, or whatever. But Hobby Lobby the corporation cannot possibly have any religious beliefs, nor can it become a communicant of any faith, nor can it go it any heaven or hell.

      No beliefs, no religious rights, it needs to follow all of the laws and be religiously neutral.

      •  There are certain corporations (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Krotor, martydd

        I WISH could go to Hell -- the sooner the better.

        There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

        by Cali Scribe on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:10:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You're missing the point (0+ / 0-)

        If I started a business as a sole proprietorship or a a partnershp -- no one would assert I had waived my constitutional rights.  But, if I form corporation - voila!

        They're gone?

        And, don't get side tracked by the whole corporations aren't people rant, before you think about it.  Corporations are authorized to exist by the States -- because, the States correctly believe providing a liability shield encourages business formation and growth.  Even if they blatantly put in the underlying legislation that authorizes corporations that formng one would result in a waiver on constitutional rights - I doubt very much if the SCOTUS would say that passed muster.

    •  I would be shocked if SCOTUS didn't rule... (0+ / 0-)

      ...on the side of Hobby Lobby on this...and i don't think it'll be close. I think it will be 6-3 or 7-2.

      Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

      by Love Me Slender on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 11:56:05 AM PDT

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    •  Hobby Lobby is asking the court (6+ / 0-)

      to elevate their "faith" above all else.  Including facts and science.  

      The morning after pill is not an abortifacient.  It does not cause an abortion.  Ever.  No matter how hard you want to believe that it terminates a pregnancy, it just doesn't.  No fetus is "killed."

      Those are facts.  Not beliefs.

      My dogs think I'm smart and pretty.

      by martydd on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 12:08:37 PM PDT

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    •  "Congress shall make no law (4+ / 0-)

      respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

      If Hobby Lobby wins this case, it would be respecting their particular religion over that of their employees. There are plenty of religions, and even Christian denominations, that have no issue with contraception but rather leave the use up to the individual and his/her conscience. Not to mention the employees who have no religious beliefs and don't belong to any organized group.

      The issue is that insurance benefits are part of the employee's benefits package; they earn those benefits by working. If Hobby Lobby wanted, they could choose not to provide benefits for anyone and pay the fines due under ACA. But they want it both ways.

      This doesn't even get into the issue of Hobby Lobby's hypocrisy; they had no issue with providing contraception coverage before the ACA was in effect, and they purchase most of their goods from China which has extreme "anti-life" policies such as forced abortion and limits on family size (and how do you hit those limits without contraception?).

      There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

      by Cali Scribe on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:08:49 PM PDT

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