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  •  What About Your Car's Copy of Your Phone (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Simplify, Cadillac64

    Most new cars sync to your cellphone. They'd better, since that's the only way to get the phone out of the hands of kamikaze texters.

    But that copies your phone to your car. Cars are notorious "Constitution exception zones", especially as regards the Fourth Amendment and searches/seizures.

    Does this ruling protect the copy of your phone that your car holds when they pull you over - or visit your driveway with a scanner?

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 08:52:32 AM PDT

    •  You're asking a really interesting criminal (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cadillac64

      procedure question.  It depends on the justification for the search of the car.  If the driver is being arrested and the search is incident to his arrest, then I think the rule in Riley clearly applies.  

      If the search is based on the automobile exception, I think the answer is a little less clear at the point, but I'm inclined to say that the search wouldn't be allowed.  

    •  Can you point me to a car that does this? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cadillac64

      I'm not aware of any car that "syncs" with your cellphone. All integration I'm aware of uses bluetooth to send commands and receive responses.

      •  Most (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cadillac64

        [car sync phone contacts]

        Ford, BMW, Honda and lots of others. To use the car instead of the phone itself to choose a contact and dial it (so not fumble with the phone), the phone's contacts must be synced to the car. Then the car gives a dashboard for selecting a contact, then the car directs the phone over bluetooth to dial (sending either the contact id or the phone#, depending on the car). All such calls are logged by the car, and perhaps other info.

        Even if it's only contacts right now, cars will be syncing everything on the phone soon enough. Your car is just another device connected by your ID with Apple/Google/MS/etc where your whole digital existence is distributed for convenience. Yours and the spies'.

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 09:14:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I've heard about SYNC (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cadillac64

          It does use bluetooth as I thought, interesting that it syncs your contact list. I wonder if that is to help with voice recognition or for a display.

          I'm not quite in the boat that that is "copying your phone" though and doubt your whole phone would ever be copied to a computer in your car (to me that would be like having your headphones download photos). But I get your point, and probably wouldn't use the feature given the proclivity for cars to be stolen.

          Frankly, I agree with the SCOTUS decision wholeheartedly, but question its value. Keeping the data on your phone private is really really hard, I doubt virtually anyone succeeds at it.

          •  Protection (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cadillac64

            I expect that everything in your phone will soon enough be copied into your car for convenience. But for now just your contacts and call logs, even for car calls, is sufficient for concern.

            Real concern for protecting all our personal data from government prying is only just starting to generate demand. Within 10 years tech protecting it, including network media transfers, will be as common as antivirus was 10 years ago.

            For it to protect from the government, at least the ordinary legitimate government (not the Pentagon/NSA/CIA), the Supreme Court must rule for all devices as it has now ruled for phones. And for all data, not just whatever is specifically the subject of this case. That might take a while, or never. But without it even the best tech isn't really good enough.

            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

            by DocGonzo on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 09:50:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I seriously doubt it (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Cadillac64

              The younger people I speak with have no desire or inclination towards privacy.

              Take this latest game for example:

              http://en.wikipedia.org/..._(game)

              Or any number of "what or who is nearby" apps.

              •  Until They're Caught (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Cadillac64

                Kids are stupid. The extroverts who don't value privacy are the most obvious, and the most promoted by our security/media complex.

                The privacy right is innate. As Lincoln observed, rights are inalienable because eventually the people will rise up to insist on them, or die. Even most of the kids plastering themselves all over the Internet will eventually become more private. Though it will be too late to get back those Spring Break pictures from their job recruiter's file.

                "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                by DocGonzo on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 10:30:30 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  No doubt (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Cadillac64

                  But how many older folks also blithely click on the permissions listed for apps they install on those same cell phones that now (correctly) need a warrant to search so they can play "words with friends".

                  •  Not With "Out-Stopper" (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Cadillac64

                    You're now talking about ignorant people misusing complex, perhaps predatory, software. Not people who don't care about their rights and their privacy/security.

                    I described a near future where people are aware, as they are steadily becoming, and protection tech improves, even to stop blithe mistakes, as it is steadily becoming.

                    The difference is the legal right to privacy. With it we can be safe; without it we cannot - regardless of the tech and attitudes. It looks to me like the tech and the attitudes will be in place. If we keep moving in the direction of this ruling, the rights will be too.

                    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                    by DocGonzo on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 12:20:23 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  I don't think that persists... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DocGonzo, Cadillac64

          ...once the link is broken. I note that, on the cars with which I've used this feature, it has to re-sync (via Bluetooth) every time the car is started and the phone pairs with it...ditto for iPod use.

          It seems that the information is dropped when the car is shut off.  Do you have any sources that suggest the preservation of the information beyond vehicle shutdown?

          The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

          by wesmorgan1 on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 09:33:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Research (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cadillac64

            I just started looking into these features since I make "dashboards" for building automation, and want to expand into the car market segment.

            Some car infosystems allow installing apps, whether fullblown or HTML5/Javascript. Those apps will have the chance to sync with personal info, and will most likely persist the data, even sync to one's cloud accounts without needing the phone itself.

            The cloud protections should derive from this privacy decision. The car protections should too, but there's so much precedent for violating rights in cars. Though this decision might turn that tide, even in cars, since it wasn't perverted by the cars precedents.

            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

            by DocGonzo on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 09:47:06 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The decision actually mentions cloud computing... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Cadillac64, DocGonzo

              ...specifically, and notes that searching data in the cloud goes well beyond what an on-the-scene search would justify.

              At first read, there's a LOT of good, strong precedent in this decision.

              The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

              by wesmorgan1 on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 12:16:25 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Speaking as a data networking geek... (0+ / 0-)

              I'd love a few pointers to whatever technical/architectural documentation you've found for these systems...

              "Honey, you've been out in the driveway for 2 hours - what are you doing?"

              "Jailbreaking the car so I can install Linux and set up roaming wireless access, honey..."

              I kid, I kid...sort of.

              The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

              by wesmorgan1 on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 01:06:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Literal Dashboards (0+ / 0-)

                QNX CAR is a leading OS/platform. It's a version of the Blackberry OS long used for embedded control (I develop building autmation for Honeywell/Tridium Niagara that runs on it), that already runs Android apps in a container.

                The GENIVI Alliance is big players making a Linux OS/app platform that will probably be more FOSS than QNX. Member GM's Cadillac CUE is an early arriver from Montavista and Bosch, while Toyota's Lexus IS is another.

                Google this week is announcing at Google I/O its Android Auto platform, essentially Android ported from phones/tablets to car dashboards.

                It will be interesting to see the car industry, that has spent over a century making human/machine interfaces for everyone in the world, help define these HMIs right as "dashboard" is becoming the paradigm of using every kind of device. The car corps are hamfisted and atavistic, but they have demonstrated the ability for anyone in the world to sit in most any car with only common basic training and drive it. Maybe that kind of unity combined with actual innovation will give us HMIs we all can use to do more than we ever have, simply. There's a reason every computer problem has a car metaphor to clarify it.

                "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                by DocGonzo on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 04:21:35 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  In a related area... (0+ / 0-)

                  ...I recently noticed that inflight entertainment on at least some Delta flights is running atop Linux; the boot messages scrolled too quickly for me to snag a distro/kernel release.

                  The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

                  by wesmorgan1 on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 04:28:40 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  It's Free (0+ / 0-)

                    And no vendor lockin. Companies that don't need to count the OS as a corporate asset like it. Plus it's where most of the developer action has been for a decade, with the notable exception of iOS.

                    The really interesting turn will be QNX running Android apps in so many vehicles and buildings. Microsoft will probably support it natively (I'd guess in Windows 9). And with Apple now buying companies like Beats I could see it doing it too, as Blackberry/QNX did. The Android Java runtime could turn out to be the universal middleware.  Even without the Android version of Linux per se running under it.

                    Then Google would have native access to the vast majority of connected devices - and people. Which was the entire Android strategy from the beginning.

                    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                    by DocGonzo on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 08:03:57 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  A bit off-topic, but you might be interested... (0+ / 0-)

                      Have you seen Android-X86? They're fairly well up-to-date; their last release was a build of 4.4 (KitKat).

                      I'm currently running Android-x86 in a VirtualBox VM on my Ubuntu Linux desktop.  (I work with Android apps, and I find this a useful means of isolating/analyzing network behavior and performance.)

                      As far as Windows is concerned, I experimented with BlueStacks but was not impressed with its performance. To be fair, they've had several releases since last I played with it, so it may have improved in that respect. It will be interesting to see if Microsoft comes out with its own native support.

                      Oh, and I have a QNX device - namely, a Blackberry Playbook. I rather like it, but I do wish I had one of the higher-capacity versions (mine is 16Gb).

                      The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

                      by wesmorgan1 on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 09:10:28 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Android-x86 on Chromebook? (0+ / 0-)

                        I've been thinking about getting a Chromebook and trying to run a "localhost OS" instead of ChromeOS on it, because I haven't found a way to run it against my own Google Apps server instead of against the official Google ones. Can I install Android-x86 on a Chromebook, and get 4.4.x on it? And how long before Android-x86 is up to date with Android L, which is the first Android Auto platform?

                        FWIW, I have an old 3Com Audrey, which is QNX. I thought I'd be able to install Linux on it someday, but now it's way too slow to care (200MHz Geode GX1, 640x480). But it's the Jace controllers, embedded devices running Tridium's Niagara for building automation, that make me a QNX developer.

                        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                        by DocGonzo on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 09:52:57 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  You'll have to check their site... (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          DocGonzo

                          Their most recent supported devices list suggests that Chromebook Pixel is supported, but  without touch support...

                          They haven't announced specific plans for Android L (I don't think Google has gone beyond a 'developer preview' at this time), but you can see their release history on the site's home page; in the most recent example, 3 months separated Google's release of KitKat and the first release candidate of Android-x86 4.4. (The project incorporated Google's 4.4.1 and 4.4.2 releases on the fly instead of limiting their release to stock KitKat.)

                          The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

                          by wesmorgan1 on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 11:50:35 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

    •  I would think it technically does.... Although ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cadillac64

      I would think it technically does.... Although you're going to have officers and principalities who fight that...

      Unless it's spelled out tho.... You know how they are.

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