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View Diary: Renegade New York Democrats claim they'll return to the fold, but watch your wallet (86 comments)

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  •  Describe what Liu did and why he was indicted. nt (0+ / 0-)
    •  google "john liu corruption" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      charliehall2, genethefiend

      The only reason the 1% are rich is because the 99% agree they are.

      by GreatLakeSailor on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 04:37:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  :-|. I take you dont know either. nt (0+ / 0-)
        •  my recollection is - (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Darth Stateworker

          his campaign got larger donations than are matched under NYC public campaign finance law

          and that his campaign falsely reported these donations as instead coming from a lot of small donors

          I think the match is 6 to 1 for the first $250 given and money beyond $1500 or $2500 is not matched from the same donor.

          So if the campaign got $50,000 from one donor but then falsely reported that as coming from 500 donors at $100 each

          the campaign would get $300,000 in matching funds instead of $1000

          pretty serious stuff - a difference of a quarter million

          the city campaign finance board found that irregularities were so wide that they took away all Liu's matching funds which  certainly left his campaign with much less ammunition than the rest of the field

          and a campaign manager went to jail

          •  Jenny Hou got 10 months, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            poco

            and Oliver Pan got 4 months. Both testified in court under examination and cross that Liu had nothing to do with it, that they thought they were helping him. The FBI investigation cleared Liu. There is your serious, despicable, criminal, ill never vote for that evil man fraud.

            Liu made a mistake in choosing friends instead of professionals in handling his campaign finance. Thats an example of bad judgement for sure. And the City was right in pulling his money considering what went down. But to suggest that hes this despicable criminal and anti progressive, especially when one really doesn't know shit, is pure bullshit.

            Especially considering the scum that folks in Manhattan elect.

            •  thank you (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              poco

              although we elect some nice guys in manhattan too, for the record  ;D

            •  i also seem to recall (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              poco

              a really good article about this in, maybe, new york magazine which examined the cultural issues at play--  liu represents a huge pride for many asians in nyc as the immigrant son who has made good and been the first citywide elected asian official.  the culture of giving cash as gifts, prevalent especially in chinese culture, was highlighted to frame the corruption scandal in a rather different light--  one that backs up the FBI's finding that he knew nothing about the money at issue

              •  That was Liu's error. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                poco

                Naturally the Asian community would want to support one of their own. Italian businesses raised money for De Blasio and Giuliani. Koch made no secret of the money he raised from the Zionists. Dinkins raised money from black folks across America and in the Caribbean. This is not a big deal.

                But Liu didnt bring in professionals to handle the due diligence. When it comes to stuff like that, you dont appoint your friends. It was a bad judgment call and hes suffering for it politically.

                But this anti-progressive and despicable criminal stuff is nonsense. And not just a little bit suspect as to its origin.

                •  i agree (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  poco

                  and you're right that there's no good excuse for not having good oversight of your own campaign.  even so---  i know a lot of people feel like he got a rough deal when he was denied matching funding for the mayoral campaign.  i imagine that probably embarrassed and pissed off a lot his asian base.  hopefully they will turn out to return him to his former glory against the no-count traitor avella

    •  If you think merely (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Justanothernyer

      because Liu wasn't indicted means he doesn't have the stink of corruption around him, I think that's a bit obtuse.

      That's about the same as saying you believe Chris Christie that he didn't know what his staff was doing either on Bridgegate.  These guys all know what their staffs are up to.  If they don't, they don't belong in office in the first place, because they are horrible managers.  Either way, Liu looks just as bad as Christie, even if on a smaller scale.

      Regardless, indicted or not, that stink doesn't help change the picture that New York state Democrats seem to keep painting for themselves that there is a ton of corruption here.  This is an image problem that we must fix in this state, wouldn't you agree?

      I should also note that the O/P never stated in their post that Liu was indicted.  Merely that his actions during the scandal were despicable - an opinion I tend to agree with.  Charged or not, the court of public opinion matters.

      "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

      by Darth Stateworker on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 05:41:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So, you too dont have any idea what (0+ / 0-)

        Liu actually did or what suspected of doing, do you?

        •  Your response indicates (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Justanothernyer

          that you're merely looking for excuses to defend Liu.  I know what happened.  You know what happened.  There is no need to rehash it, especially as rexxnyc just did in response to you.

          Quite frankly, if you want to be a Liu fanboy, that's your choice, but the rest of us don't have to be, whether you and your ego like it or not.  As I noted:  tell us how the Liu and Christie situations differ.  That is what matters.  Not whether or not he was actually indicted.

          What's next?  Are you going to tell me former senate majority leader Joe Bruno was a perfectly clean politician as well because he won his retrial?  Granted, he's a Republican, but still - the logic is the same, and the evidence against him is equally overwhelming enough to taint him in the court of public opinion.

          "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

          by Darth Stateworker on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 06:04:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Joe Bruno was indicted and convicted. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            poco

            So now youre comparing a man cleared by the FBI, never arrested, never indicted...hes just as corrupt as joe bruno.

            So, you after being asked twice, never actually can actually say what Liu did because you have no idea. You know why you have no idea? Because he was cleared by the FBI. To you he just looks corrupt, right?

            •  Of course, that's not the full story. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Justanothernyer

              Bruno was indicted, convicted, and then the decision overturned, and then acquitted on retrial.

              Regardless, you're again ignoring the overarching point:  the court of public opinion matters.

              Your defection on repeatedly asking me to reiterate what occurred in the Liu campaign finance scandal is merely an indication that you are well aware that the court of public opinion and Lius tacit connection to the scandal are all but indefensible.

              Again:  How is Liu "I didn't know what my staff was doing" excuse any different from Christies?  Explain that, or you have no legitimate line of argument.

              "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

              by Darth Stateworker on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 06:19:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Aha. Central Park 5 logic. (0+ / 0-)

                Actual guilt or actual innocence, irrellevant. If youre guilty in the media, its the same thing as being actually guilty. So lock em up.

                Lol.

                Well, look. I know Liu was politically impossible which is why I endorsed de Blasio on the front page here when he was nowhere in the polls. But calling him Joe Bruno? This 'ill never vote for that evil man' stuff? It appears something else is going on here.

                All the same, hed be an improvement over just about everyone in Albany.

                •  Just what, exactly, are you implying? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Justanothernyer
                  It appears something else is going on here.
                  While I said I was bowing out of arguing with someone who's clearly being obstinate, I'm not letting that comment go.

                  By all means, finish your thought.

                  "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

                  by Darth Stateworker on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 07:01:46 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  As for Christie, were still fleshing that out (0+ / 0-)

                now arent we? If hes cleared, hes cleared. I mean what kind of sociopath are you that you presume guilt even when a person has been cleared?

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