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View Diary: Worth saying again: I'm from the government and I'm here to help you (7 comments)

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  •  Government is an essential part of society... (12+ / 0-)

    Civilized society anyway.

    Thanks for being part of it.

    "If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged." - 17th-century French clergyman and statesman Cardinal Richelieu.

    by markthshark on Wed Jul 02, 2014 at 05:45:36 PM PDT

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    •  Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society (7+ / 0-)

      Some guy named "Holmes" once wrote that.  Who doesn't want police or fire departments?  Who doesn't want roads, bridges, or sewer systems?  Who doesn't want any military?

      We're not debating whether to have a government.  We're debating what government does.  I think that our military is far too bloated, that the NSA is far too intrusive, and that we spend far too little on infrastructure.  Others feel differently on those issues.  Only a tiny fringe, however, think that government should be shut down entirely.

      I'm beyond tired of abstract debates on this subject.  Let's honestly debate what government should do.  Let's ask people if they trust GM to build safe cars w/o Uncle Sam looking over its shoulder.  Let's ask them if they want to abolish SS and Medicare.  Let's ask them if they want zoning laws--or if they would prefer to let their next door neighbor run a liquor store out of his home.

      There should be no defensiveness here.

      Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

      by RFK Lives on Wed Jul 02, 2014 at 07:18:24 PM PDT

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      •  That's really the problem though. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        markthshark, RFK Lives, bfitzinAR

        Abstract debates on the subject.

        When conservatives attack government (and government employees) their attacks are little more than abstract.  It's a lot of generalization without a lot of substance.

        They do this because they know that when they get down to the nitty-gritty, people tend to like and support the services they get.

        See Rick Perry struggling to recall what Federal agencies he'd like to shut down, because even citing agencies themselves is, for the most part, nothing but an abstract argument.

        Sure, poll Republicans about the EPA and they'll cheer over the thought of its demise.  But then shear the outdoorsy-types off from the group, and point out all the programs the EPA has that maintains the environment that let them enjoy things like hunting and fishing and not bringing home poised game, and suddenly, those programs matter.  But the EPA itself?  They'll still say it sucks.

        People - especially Republicans - seem to have a habit of not being able to mesh the abstract with nitty-gritty details.  That's why abstract arguments work, and why they keep coming up.  The GOP cannot win on the details, so they provide none.

        Believe me, I think we're all tired of arguing with their abstract, straw-man arguments.

        "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

        by Darth Stateworker on Wed Jul 02, 2014 at 09:11:47 PM PDT

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