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View Diary: Kentucky Republican: Climate change unproven because 'temperature on Mars is exactly as it is here' (290 comments)

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  •  actually, there is (and it is almost all CO2) (15+ / 0-)

    Mars has an atmosphere about one-half percent of earths, and that atmosphere is 96% CO2.

    Since earth's atmosphere is about 0.04% CO2 and Mars is smaller than earth, that means Mars actually has more heat-trapping CO2 available above each square meter of surface.

    But earth also has H2O which amplifies the heating from CO2, and its denser atmosphere makes it easier for energy trapped by a CO2 molecule to be transferred away as heat rather than re-radiation.

    The net effect is that Mars does have a greenhouse effect, but its only about 5K, as opposed to 33K on earth.

    •  Well, don't forget the distance factor... n/t (6+ / 0-)

      The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

      by wesmorgan1 on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 05:57:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  that's why I referenced the change due to CO2 (6+ / 0-)

        as opposed to the absolute temperature, which of course will be lower further out from the sun.

      •  Distance (0+ / 0-)

        One of the things these "Mars is just like Earth, so SHUTUP" people don't factor in; Venus is much closer to Earth orbit than is Mars. If Mars has a temperature close to Earth's, Venus should be even closer. But it's not. While Mars is about 100 degrees colder, Venus is about 800 degrees hotter when simple proximity (using their simplistic argument) suggests Venus should be closer to 50 degrees warmer.

        They never like hearing this.

        The polls don't tell us how a candidate is doing, the polls tell us how the media is doing.

        by Thumb on Fri Jul 04, 2014 at 07:24:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Read it twice. This comment makes no sense. (0+ / 0-)
          •  How so? (0+ / 0-)

            Venus is in fact closer to Earth's orbit than is Mars, yet the surface temperatures of Earth and Mars are much closer to each other than that of Venus and Earth.

            I'm fully aware that I'm oversimplifying things, because the denialists line of argument comparing Earth's temps to those of Mars is overly simplistic, but it doesn't change the fact that based on their reasoning the temps of Earth and Venus should be closer to each other than the temps of Earth and Mars.

            The polls don't tell us how a candidate is doing, the polls tell us how the media is doing.

            by Thumb on Fri Jul 04, 2014 at 08:08:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Thumb is just doing a reductio (0+ / 0-)

            of the idea that temperature differences should be about proportional to distance changes. Well no, for example Venus has a very dense CO2 atmosphere and Mars' is very thin.

        •  better argument is earth/moon (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kfunk937

          As Fourier noted in 1824, Earth and the moon are equidistant from the sun, but Earth is 60+F warmer than the moon.  He suggested that our atmosphere was the likely reason.

          Then in 1859 (still before the Civil War!) Tyndall demonstrated that a few gases such as H2O and CO2 accounted for virtually all of that effect.

          Then in 1896 (still 19th century!) Arrrhenius published the law connecting CO2 levels with the amount of heat trapped at the surface.

          It took the development of quantum mechanics in the beginning of the 20th century to explain WHY H2O and CO2 ware vastly more effective than O2 and H2 in trapping heat, but definitely by the 1930's all of the basic science was known and beyond dispute.  That's also about the time that Callendar began to argue that AGW was already underway.

          A timeline for the discovery of global warming (American Institute of Physics)

        •  Don't even try (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BLUE Skies in Red Hell

          to bring science, or even logic, into a debate where the other side starts off with a disagreement-killer like "I think in academia we all agree" and then voices the most unscientific statement ever made.  Just pick up and leave, 'cause you're not going to make any progress against him using facts.

          "Never argue with an idiot.  They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience."

          "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." -- Neil DeGrasse Tyson/// "Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." -- Aldous Huxley

          by ThePhlebob on Mon Jul 07, 2014 at 08:15:06 PM PDT

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          •  And don't forget that many of the deniers (0+ / 0-)

            JUST DON'T CARE.

            Many of them are fundamentalists who believe that the Second Coming will occur in our lifetimes, and they'll be swept up in the "Rapture", so what happens to the Earth really doesn't matter. What matters is making enough money here and now, because there really isn't any "later".

            Republicans - A pathology, not a party.

            by storeysound on Wed Jul 09, 2014 at 11:33:00 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  There you go again (11+ / 0-)

      getting all sciencey and stuff.

      beam me up Scotty- there's no intelligent life down here

      by ladybug4you on Thu Jul 03, 2014 at 06:03:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And due to its greater distance from the sun . . . (0+ / 0-)

      . . . Mars also gets only about half the solar heat and light Earth does. So as the article notes, Mr. Smith's temperature numbers are stone cold wrong; Mars is lucky to hit 70 Fahrenheit every so often at the equator in midsummer. Much of the time, it's cold enough to freeze carbon dioxide into dry ice, which never happens on Earth even in the Antarctic.

      •  Not quite right (0+ / 0-)

        Dry ice forms at -78.5°C.  Vostok station in the Antarctic recorded a temperature of -89.2°C, and a recent satellite reading hit -94.7°C.  Pretty rare, but not quite the same as never.

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