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View Diary: The IDF bombardment hits a rehabilitation center for the disabled in Gaza killing four (30 comments)

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  •  Well (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JayinPortland, charliehall2

    As soon as Hamas stops firing rockets at Tel Aviv then we can talk about Israel stopping the bombing. Until then, let it continue. What would you do if somebody was firing rockets at San Fransisco?

    Good girls shop. Bad girls shop. Shoppin', shoppin' from A to Z!

    by Zornorph on Sat Jul 12, 2014 at 01:10:47 PM PDT

    •  Just as soon as Israel stops building settlements (15+ / 0-)

      on other folks' property?

      What would we do if a bunch of Europeans took over San San Francisco and moved all the residents to Oakland?

      Fiat justitia ruat caelum "Let justice be done though the heavens fall."

      by bobdevo on Sat Jul 12, 2014 at 01:14:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  If the San Francisco government was holding (11+ / 0-)

      an entire population hostage in a nearby town, in an open-air prison, and stealing their lands, razing their homes, redirecting water, killing their children, then I might not feel that bad about it.

    •  Juan Cole deals with that false comparison (16+ / 0-)

      http://www.juancole.com/...
      Stop Saying ‘If X fired Rockets at U.S.’: It’s Racist, & assumes we’re Colonial

      Is anyone else disgusted by the propaganda trick of trying to get Americans to sympathize with Israel’s massive attack on the civilian habitations of Gaza by saying “if the US was subjected to rocket fire by X [usually Mexicans], what would it do?

      This hope that Americans are racists and that their racism can be incited against the Palestinians is about the lowest rhetorical trick you could imagine.

      The reason Israel is taking rocket fire from Gaza is that is is an Occupying Power over Gaza and won’t let the Palestinians of that territory have the rights that accrue to citizens of a state. The Israeli military decides the fate of 4.3 million Palestinians, who are denied basic popular sovereignty. Israel has Gaza non-combatant civilians under economic blockade, preventing people from exporting most of what they make. It has destroyed the airport and won’t let the Mediterranean port function. It has deliberately made 56% of the population food insecure, i.e. a couple of paychecks away from going hungry
      .

      Here's a good example..

      And as with all propaganda, what would be easier than turning it around? Imagine if the Chinese occupied Alabama and strode around Birmingham armed and in Chinese military uniforms. Imagine if they started importing millions of Chinese people into Alabama. What if they disarmed the Alabamans and pushed them off the land they’d lived on for centuries, stealing water and other resources? What if, when asked by now homeless families whose houses had been confiscated or blown up, what the reason was, the Chinese replied this way? That the Native Americans were East Asians & the ones who remained behind were ancestors of the Chinese and their eastern branch that crossed the Bering Straits became the original inhabitants of Alabama, and so China’s claim much preceded that of recent immigrants from Europe?

      What do you think the people of Alabama would do to those Chinese occupiers and settlers?

      (I apologize to my Chinese friends for the above. The whole thought experiment, being a form of racist propaganda, is inherently distasteful; I’m just showing what the other side of that argument might hypothetically look like).

      So could we please stop doing politics by propaganda, false analogies, and appeal to the basest instincts of race-baiting? Could we please just analyze what is going on in Palestine?

      (all emphasis mine)

      without the ants the rainforest dies

      by aliasalias on Sat Jul 12, 2014 at 01:39:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Plus, there is a difference between adults that (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corvo

        moves onto stolen land, any accompanying children, and people born there.

        When the thief and thieved are still living that is much more clear than after generations. Both USA & Israel and still stealing new stuff and both should stop and backtrack.

        The boss needs you, you don't need him. -- France general strike, May 1968

        by stargaze on Sat Jul 12, 2014 at 04:07:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  What would you do if someone was (7+ / 0-)

      occupying New York?

      "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

      by Paleo on Sat Jul 12, 2014 at 02:12:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Uh, I am occupying New York City (0+ / 0-)

        I even know the name of the Native American group the Dutch settlers displaced. (The Lenape.)

        Unless you are getting on the next flight for Europe or to wherever your ancestors came from, STFU about Israel. After all, Jews used to be the majority population there until THEY were ethnically cleansed.

        •  There's a difference between adults that move onto (0+ / 0-)

          stolen land, any accompanying children, and people born there.

          When the thief and thieved are both still living the wrong is much more clear than after generations. Both USA & Israel and still stealing new stuff and both should stop and backtrack.

          The boss needs you, you don't need him. -- France general strike, May 1968

          by stargaze on Sun Jul 13, 2014 at 05:52:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry, under your analogy (0+ / 0-)

          the Jews are the Native Americans.  So you should be willing to give Manhattan back.

          "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

          by Paleo on Sun Jul 13, 2014 at 01:12:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Too bad Sharon was only interested in sticking it (6+ / 0-)

      to Arafat or Israel wouldn't be facing Hamas in Gaza right now. Gaza today is Israel's Frankenstein.

      "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." ~ Thomas Jefferson

      by Lefty Coaster on Sat Jul 12, 2014 at 03:24:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Maybe (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      stargaze, frostbite, corvo

      Israel should stop militarily occupying and annexing other people's land. Also, Hamas's actions were once again in retaliation of Israel escalating the violence, and reneging on the previous cease fire.

      •  You are a liar (0+ / 0-)

        Israel got out of Gaza completely in 2005. And its reward was rockets.

        Israel did not escalate this violence. Rockets have been flying from Gaza for almost a month. The amazing thing is that it took so long for Israel to respond. It should have responded after the first rocket. The US invaded Mexico in 1916 after a single raid by Pancho Villa!

        •  qsdf (0+ / 0-)
          Israel got out of Gaza completely in 2005.
          No, it didn't. It still controls every aspect of Gaza through its blockade.
          Israel did not escalate this violence. Rockets have been flying from Gaza for almost a month.
          There's always a low level of rocket activity. The escalation of rocket attacks came in July, after Israel had been raiding the West Bank for weeks, and had already bombed the Gaza strip several times in June.

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