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View Diary: Liberal nationalism is not only possible, it's essential (149 comments)

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  •  Liberal Nationalism? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sparhawk

    So we erase or set aside ethnic, racial, religious, gender, economic, etc. differences for the sake of what, the State?
    Because the State will provide for us and we in turn will provide for it? Forgive my naivety, but didn't we use to call that Marxist-Leninism?  And if that is what you had in mind, what makes you think it will work better this time simply by changing the name? Have we evolved and gained some insight as a species since the last time this was tried. I think not.  

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."- Eleanor Roosevelt

    by calmandcollected on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 12:47:14 PM PDT

    •  Who said anything about erasing any of those (0+ / 0-)

      things? Please re-read my post.

      •  Just re-read it (0+ / 0-)

        and unfortunately you did...hear are your own words.

        "The community in question must not be restricted by any identifying related criteria". "The members identify themselves as a community of citizens-unified by a commitment to basic democratic ideals".
        I am not trying to criticize but that is exactly what erasing or setting aside means. not saying you are wrong, just want to fully understand what you are asking us to ascribe to  

        "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."- Eleanor Roosevelt

        by calmandcollected on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 01:33:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Those words do not say what you think they do. (0+ / 0-)

          Not even close. They say that being part of the community cannot be restricted to any one group, based on race, religion, etc. It has nothing to do with erasing. And below I make that even more clear:

          A civic nationalism, or at least a liberal one, also respects diversity. Therefore, it does not demand, as early 20th century nationalists did, that people become "100% Americans," that they "melt" into an undifferentiated mass of homogeneity, or conform to a pre-existing cultural model. A liberal civic nationalism is built on pluralism, on the foundation of a multi-layered identity that is not either/or, in terms of one's ancestral heritage vs. one's Americanness, but rather one that is both/and, one in which Americanness complements rather than competes with ancestral ties.
          I hope this helps clarify my thinking for you.
          •  I did catch that (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ian Reifowitz

            and i apologize for the characterization of your views...maybe in a future diary you can explain how this Liberal-Nationalism can be attained without erasing identity.

            Thanks  

            "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."- Eleanor Roosevelt

            by calmandcollected on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 01:54:07 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No sweat. I've been there myself. (0+ / 0-)

              The answer is relatively simple. It's in the definition. Just as, for example, Nazism defined membership in the nation as based on blood, we can define membership in the nation as based on citizenship. But each of us has to act on that definition in our dealings with our fellow citizens.

              •  Elsewhere you are saying definitions don't matter. (0+ / 0-)

                If you don't like the word "nationalism," if the word has bad association for you, the word doesn't matter.

                Here, you are saying definitions do matter. It's a trick by definition, explicitly. Nationalism is defined in terms of citizenship.

                This is really unclear:

                But each of us has to act on that definition
                How can someone act on a definition? And why must we act on it?

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