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View Diary: Religion, Science and Dogmatism (116 comments)

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  •  I for one... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SaraBeth

    ...am progressive because I am Christian, not despite it.  In fact I have been known to alter my views to be more progressive after reading the Bible and being reminded what it commands us.

    •  Just be careful what commands you choose. (2+ / 0-)
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      Fishtroller01, metalnun

      Deuteronomy 21:18-21 ESV

      “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

      •  This is EXACTLY what I am (0+ / 0-)

        talking about.  Cherry picking the bible to come up with a nice god and a good Jesus is kind of dishonest when the nasty god and the harsh judgmental Jesus are in there too.

        These stories don't have ONE overall theme or "command".

        •  The cherry-picking itself doesn't bother me. (2+ / 0-)
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          vadem165, SaraBeth

          We are all a la carte consumers of whatever culture we were raised in. You and I, as atheists, are even cherry-pickers of the bible since we grew up in a culture where much of morality, ethics, and law are based on biblical beginnings.

          What bothers me is the hypocrisy of many who claim they don't cherry-pick and blast others for that supposed sin.

          •  One person's cherry picking... (1+ / 0-)
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            SaraBeth

            ...is another person's discernment and study.  Some things the Bible says are very context specific; others more universally applicable.  Jesus constantly circles back to the theme of love and puts the greatest emphasis on that, even making it the basis of what he identifies as the greatest and most important.  Not every ugly sounding rule they came up with for ordering society in their circumstances should be taken as divine or eternal, even if the people writing said invoked God as a way to get the people to follow it.

          •  The most strident literalists (2+ / 0-)
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            metalnun, SaraBeth

            I've encountered over the past few decades are atheists. Who often seem unable to wrap their heads around the idea that not all who consider the Bible to be 'holy' consider it to be one long, multi-generational collection of absolute edicts. Even the Jews - whose history, notables and philosophy(ies) are recorded therein (IOW, they wrote it) - consider the edicts to be absolute. As soon as Moses delivered 'The Law', the people invented Judges to weigh circumstances against 'The Law'. As Jesus once noted, no one is justified by the law. Life is chock full of ambiguities.

            Yeah, hard core fundamentalists in all three monotheist traditions can be notable Bibolators (or Koranators). Hard core fundamentalists do not represent the majority in any of those traditions.

            There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

            by Joieau on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 10:32:21 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Difference being, atheists aren't the ones (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Fishtroller01

              trying to shove their literalism down everyone else's throat. Those few that are literalist anyway. I don't run into that very often, and when it does happen it's more in reaction to the stupidity and fanaticism of religious literalists.

              •  Not necessarily so. (2+ / 0-)
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                metalnun, SaraBeth

                I've had more than one or two of those I consider to be "Evangelical Atheists" [EAs] try to "inform" me of what I believe, or when that doesn't work, "inform" me of what I should believe.

                Not because I believe it, or that believe I should believe it, or some imagined faith tradition THEY believe I believe, demands that I believe. I usually shrug and laugh a little about the incredible wonders of modern day Mind Reading magical technology. And how they always manage to get it so wrong.

                I've never tried to shove my beliefs down anybody's throat in my entire life. I don't run into people trying to shove theirs down mine very often either. I'm quite comfortable with what I believe and am not looking to believe what someone else believes. I think we could all use/enjoy a whole lot more tolerance on that score.

                There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

                by Joieau on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 06:32:23 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  That only applies if you take everything (0+ / 0-)

        in the Bible as literal and applicable to today.

        It isn't and it does not. Even as a Pagan I know that much...and yes, I was raised Christian but I always KNEW that this had no meaning for today. It's called common sense.

        Apparently you do think that it does apply today...

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