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View Diary: The Egyptian Initiative for a Ceasefire in Gaza: Stuck on Step One (174 comments)

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  •  76 rockets fired on Israel since 9 a.m. on Tuesday (6+ / 0-)
    •  According to them. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Don midwest, corvo, cybrestrike

      "Fragmented and confused, we have no plan to combat any of this, but are looking to be saved by the very architects of our ruination."

      by BigAlinWashSt on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 08:48:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That corresponds well (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      InAntalya

      with the 47 between 9 am and 3 pm reported in the diary.

      "Turns out I'm really good at killing people." - President Obama

      by jrooth on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 08:52:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  47 100 lb. rockets that did nothing (0+ / 0-)

        Hamas and others are still batting .000 in over a thousand attempts. Our 4th of July fireworks caused more damage. Personally, I'm going with the IDF's 2000 lb.precision-guided bunker busters, a gift from US taxpayers.

        I never liked you and I always will.

        by Ray Blake on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 10:24:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  4th of July firework?! (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mattoqp, JNEREBEL, Mets102, Jersey Jon, aseth

          Tell that to the Israeli civilian who died today.

          http://www.nytimes.com/...

          Can we stop pretending that Hamas isn't firing deadly weapons and trying to kill Israelis? There is no rule of war that says 'if your enemy is very bad at what they do, you're not allowed to be better.'

          Done with politics for the night? Have a nice glass of wine with Palate Press: The online wine magazine.

          by dhonig on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 10:37:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The death of the Israeli civilian is a tragedy (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tonedevil

            However, as the NYT states, he wasn't killed by a rocket, but by mortar fire at the Gaza border:

            Micky Rosenfeld, a spokesman for the Israel Police, said the civilian was a 37-year-old man who had volunteered to distribute food parcels to Israeli soldiers near the [Erez] crossing, and who was critically wounded by mortar fire around 7 p.m. The man, whom Mr. Rosenfeld declined to identify, died shortly after in an Ashkelon hospital.

            I never liked you and I always will.

            by Ray Blake on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 10:49:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  And this makes a difference how? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Mets102

              In my opinion, your comment was repugnant. I do not understand how you can see the death as a tragedy when you describe the attacks as mere 'fireworks'.

              "Stay close to the candles....the staircase can be treacherous" (-8.38,-8.51)

              by JNEREBEL on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 10:59:16 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Actually, that's not what I said. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                happymisanthropy, Tonedevil

                And the message I responded to implied that a rocket had caused the Israeli casuality. It didn't. Facts matter. What I said was that our fireworks displays cause more damage, and in fact, they do:

                According to a study by the Consumer Product Safety Commission, there were eight deaths related to fireworks accidents in the United States in 2013 – adding to the 86 fireworks-related deaths recorded since 2000. Illegal and homemade fireworks were involved in all eight deaths.

                Some 11,400 people sustained fireworks-related injuries in 2013, and 65 percent of those injuries occurred from June 21-July 21.

                    The parts of the body most often injured were hands and fingers (approximately 36 percent); head, face, and ears (22 percent); eyes (16 percent); and legs (14 percent).
                    More than half (62 percent) of the emergency department-treated injuries were burns, which were the most common injury to all parts of the body (except the eyes, where contusions, lacerations and foreign bodies in the eyes occurred more frequently).

                I never liked you and I always will.

                by Ray Blake on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 11:12:57 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The fact that it was a mortar instead of a rocket (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  aseth, harrylimelives

                  makes no difference to the person killed does it?

                  And what difference does it make to anyone else? It was fired with the intention of killing civilians into civilian areas and it finally succeeded in killing a civilian.

                  That you double-down on your fireworks analogy only does not help your cause.

                  "Stay close to the candles....the staircase can be treacherous" (-8.38,-8.51)

                  by JNEREBEL on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 11:26:42 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Disgusting comment displaying no care or (0+ / 0-)

          concern for civilian lives.

          "Stay close to the candles....the staircase can be treacherous" (-8.38,-8.51)

          by JNEREBEL on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 10:55:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I've expressed considerable care for the 200 lives (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tonedevil, Johnny Q

            lost in Gaza, and the 1 Israeli life lost today from mortar fire at the Gaza crossing. Each death is a tragedy.

            I never liked you and I always will.

            by Ray Blake on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 10:59:55 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I have difficulty with your expression given your (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              harrylimelives

              uncaring about the fate of Israeli citizens until they are killed by the mere 'fireworks'.

              "Stay close to the candles....the staircase can be treacherous" (-8.38,-8.51)

              by JNEREBEL on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 11:08:59 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Given your often expressed callousness (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                callmecassandra, Tonedevil, Johnny Q

                towards the actual deaths of Palestinians and the brutality of the Occupation, forgive me for not giving a rat's ass about your difficulties. I reserve my compassion for the 201 civilians who have been killed, and simply hope that no one else in Israeli and Gaza will meet the same fate, knowing full well that the overwhelming proportion of the killing and maiming will befall the Palestinians, as it always does.

                I never liked you and I always will.

                by Ray Blake on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 11:31:25 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I am certain you can easily provide multiple (0+ / 0-)

                  explicit expressions of my callousness towards the actual deaths of Palestinians.

                  While I await your gathering of the multitudes I can help you in your effort!

                  Taking inspiration from an amazing comment by a fellow community member I would like to state my own sorrow at the loss of innocents.  Both sides of the Israeli/Palestinian divide have encountered untold sadness and grief over the years and with each new loss the future, at times, seems bleak at best.

                  However, we cannot allow atrocities committed by some to cause us to lose awareness of our own humanity as well as those with whom we disagree. We know the pain of loss and when the loss occurs by our political opponents we should express our own sorrow for what has occurred so tragically to them.

                  "Stay close to the candles....the staircase can be treacherous" (-8.38,-8.51)

                  by JNEREBEL on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 11:38:40 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Your position with respect to the Palestinians (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    callmecassandra, Tonedevil

                    and the Occupation are well-known. I don't need to bore myself sifting through your voluminous defenses of the indefensible. I'll put my efforts toward supporting the BDS movement, the one best hope of ending the Occupation.

                    Oh and a big shout-out to all the Israeli progressives who fearlessly lead the opposition! Without them, we'd have no idea what was really going on.

                    I never liked you and I always will.

                    by Ray Blake on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 12:01:49 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, noes. The HR brigade is back in town (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tonedevil

          And your rationale Jnerebel is what?

          I never liked you and I always will.

          by Ray Blake on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 10:56:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  That explains the unusual wounds that are (8+ / 0-)

        resistant to healing that have been reported by western doctors on the ground recently.

        Another fucking Fallujah in the making?

      •  Alleged DIME's? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jrooth

        Has anyone ever shown Israel to be in the possession of such weapons?  All I've seen is speculation about some of the injuries.

        The only weapon platform I'm familiar with that uses them is the GBU-39, which I don't think Israel has.

      •  DIME? n/t (0+ / 0-)

        No War but Class War

        by AoT on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 09:31:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Carbon cased bomb, heavy metal shrapnel. (5+ / 0-)

          The heavy metal, mixed with the explosion damps down the blast radius, the use of a carbon casing as shrapnel, and the use of the heavy metal as shrapnel, reduces the effective radius of the shrapnel.

          So a 500lb DIME bomb will have an effective blast range of about 15 meters, and an effective shrapnel range of about 13 meters, and there will be no blast effect or shrapnel beyond 40 meters.

          A 500lb HE bomb, will have an effective blast radius of about 100 meters and a effective shrapnel range of about 150 meters. The blast effect will exist at crippling levels out to 500 meters and the shrapnel will be lethal, but dispersed, out to about 750 meters.

          The theory was that a DIME weapon could be targeted for example, on a drywalled largish room, or cinderblock room, and people outside the room, would be uninjured.

          Unfortunately, the dampened and concentrated blast effect causes massive compression and shearing,

          And the heavy metal and carbon casing form micro shrapnel.

          So, let's say your hand is reaching into a largish cinderblock room to turn on the lightswitch when the DIME dentonates, and only your hand and a small part of the forearm are inside the room, but the forearm is outside the effective blast radius

          The blast effect might traumatically amputate some of your fingers, but it will shatter many or most of the bones in your hand. Not break, shatter, like a wineglass dropped of a balcony onto tile. Your hand will be penetrated deeply by tungsten, tungsten oxide, nickel oxide, and carbon finer micro shrapnel. In the case of the carbon casing microshapnel, think thousands of needles, a tenth the thickness of a human hair, an 8th of an inch long. In the case of the heavy metals, there are two effects, think millions of shotgun pellets less than a thousandth of an inch in diameter, and the second effect is that the heat of the blast will fuse some of the heavy metals into a tiny molten metal slug, loaded with oxcides, less than a 1/16th of an inch, that will penetrate very deeply, burning through bone like an Explosively Formed Penetrator, burns through armour.

          The first effect you will notice, is that your hand will swell up like it's been caught between a piano moving a 60mph and a brick wall, then will come the pain, then the hand will sweat blood, and turn black. You will also notice some sweating of blood on the forearm.

          The fingers, if they are gone, are gone, they cannot be reattached, the shattered bones cannot be set, or pinned, and the wounds from the micro shrapnel cannot be cleaned and closed, too small. The oxides formed by the burning of the heavy metal micro slugs, retard clotting. If left untreated, you will bleed out and die.

          At the hospital, all they will be able to do, is give you drugs for the pain, drug courses to prevent infection, and amputate.

          At the shoulder. The same micro shrapnel in your forearm, also very quickly causes cancer. And if any of the micro shrapnel ended it's journey in your bloodstream, well, enjoy what time you have left.

          Victims outside the effective blast radius will present with the symptoms of shock, then random , scattered sweating of blood. Clotting agents can be proscribe, and saline and blood transfusions can be used, but if the bleeding does not stop, at some point in time the doctor has to pull treatment, give the patient pain meds and let them slowly bleed to death.

          If the wounds do clot, then there is the cancer.

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