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View Diary: The Egyptian Initiative for a Ceasefire in Gaza: Stuck on Step One (174 comments)

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  •  That's probably true. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Angryallen

    But I'd like to know something. If Hamas were the one that had accepted the terms, and stopped firing, and Israel were the one that declined the peace overture and had continued firing, would you be saying the same thing?

    •  That refusal to accept the initiative would be (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tonedevil, Johnny Q

      stupid and counterproductive?

      Yes.

      Also, I have seen no reports that the leadership of Hamas has declined the peace overture.

      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 09:18:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  If Israel had trouble stopping its military (5+ / 0-)

      from taking some action and had to negotiate with them to do so then I'd be extremely worried. That's the position of the Palestinians.

      No War but Class War

      by AoT on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 09:30:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Nope. Israel would be savaged here on Kos (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Zornorph

      And in every other form of media, worldwide.

      Hamas gets a "pass" because their walkie talkies don't have range, or something.

      •  Probably Just a "Targeting" Problem (4+ / 0-)

        The Israeli government has shown zero - nada, zip, zilch - compunction about targeting and trying to kill any Hamas leader it can with or without a cease-fire agreement in place.  They've done it in the past when the PA appeared to be getting close to accepting surrender terms and they'll likely do it in the future.  The major reason the Israelis would find a cease-fire desirable now is so they can update their targeting information on the Hamas leadership and then act with the usual justifications for their lack of concern about collateral damage.

        "Love the Truth, defend the Truth, speak the Truth, and hear the Truth" - Jan Hus, d.1415 CE

        by PrahaPartizan on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 10:43:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Count me in if this helps Israel find those (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Eugene Harrison

          Justifiable targets.

        •  You need to change the quote at bottom of post (0+ / 0-)

          You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the brain.  
          If Israel was as bad as you pretend, there would be no Palestinian left on the face of the earth.  They show great constraint but you can't or even better won't see that.  You are blinded by your hate and so called "learning".  Don't worry though, you will have lots of fellow travelers letting you know that you are great and powerful.  
          You learned that anybody that has power and restraint is evil.  You are wrong, those with power and constraint are looking to survive without having to kill everyone.  They don't teach their children to hate and kill everyone they disagree with.

          Heres a good quote for the bottom of your next post.
          "The truth is whatever those that hate Israel or America tell me"

          •  Israel has a long and sordid history of targeting (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tonedevil, PrahaPartizan

            and killing Palestinian leadership.

            List of Israeli assassinations

            The following is a list of alleged and confirmed assassinations reported to have been conducted by the State of Israel. It includes attempts on notable persons who were reported to have been specifically targeted by the various Israeli security, intelligence and law enforcement agencies.

            Targeted killings

            Some of the targeted killings by the Israeli military were Hamas leaders Mahmoud Adani (February 2001), Jamil Jadallah (November 2001), Salah Shahade (July 2002), Sheikh Ahmed Yassin (March 2004), Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi (April 2004) and Adnan al-Ghoul (October 2004), all targeted in the Al-Aqsa Intifada.[5]

            While the term "targeted killing" usually describes airborne attacks, Israeli security forces have killed top Palestinian militants in the past by other means, although this has never been confirmed officially.

            You learned that anybody that has power and restraint is evil.  You are wrong, those with power and constraint are looking to survive without having to kill everyone.  They don't teach their children to hate and kill everyone they disagree with.
            Jewish hate of Arabs proves: Israel must undergo cultural revolution
            Without a revolution based on humanist values, the Jewish tribe will not be worthy of its own state.

            There are no words to describe the horror allegedly done by six Jews to Mohammed Abu Khdeir of Shoafat. Although a gag order bars publication of details of the terrible murder and the identities of its alleged perpetrators, the account of Abu Khdeir’s family — according to which the boy was burned alive — would horrify any mortal. Anyone who is not satisfied with this description, can view the horror movie in which members of Israel’s Border Police are seen brutally beating Tariq Abu Khdeir, the murder victim’s 15-year-old cousin.

            The Israel Police was quick to label the murderers “Jewish extremists,” meaning they aren’t part of the herd, they are outliers, “wild weeds.” This is the police’s way of trying to justify a sin, to “make the vermin kosher.” But the vermin is huge, and many-legged. It has embraced the soldiers and other young Israelis who overran the social media networks with calls for revenge and with hatred for Arabs. The vermin was welcomed by Knesset members, rabbis and public figures who demanded revenge. Nor did it skip over the prime minister, who declared “Vengeance for the blood of a small child, Satan has not yet created.”

          •  Keep Living In Your Fantasy World (0+ / 0-)

            I haven't any hate for Israelis or Israel.  I just see them going down a path they've turned into an expressway to ruin.  The situation is reaching a tipping point beyond which the right-wing governments in Israel will not be able to stop the slide into the abyss.

            Israeli governments have shown very little restraint over the last three decades and your insistence that they have simply demonstrates your hate and disdain for the Palestinians.  Making them less than human just makes it easier to kill them, doesn't it?  You choose to believe whatever propaganda the Israelis spew.  Well, good for you.  That still doesn't make it true.  

            "Love the Truth, defend the Truth, speak the Truth, and hear the Truth" - Jan Hus, d.1415 CE

            by PrahaPartizan on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 11:11:30 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Militaries are different creations than (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tonedevil

        Militant Resistance Groups.

        It's a false equivalency.

        And you know it.

    •  The difference in this case is that Hamas doesn't (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tonedevil, AoT

      appear to have a well-established command structure for their fighters. As such, it may take longer for them to ceasefire (both to decide on and actually act on it).
      Israel don't have that problem.

      Basically, the differences come down to how long it's taking them to act. If Israel didn't agree to the ceasefire within about a day or two, then one can safely argue that they reject it. If Hamas didn't agree to it within a day or two, one can argue that they're still working on it.

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