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View Diary: Hamas Reportedly to Present Ceasefire Proposal Tomorrow (78 comments)

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  •  Anatolya, responding to your inquiry in (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    beltane, InAntalya, Jersey Jon

    a previous diary re Gaza plebicite to join Egypt:

    Egyptians and Gazans have same religion (sunni Muslim), same langauge (arabic) and culture.

    You would have to have a fair and free debate--pro and con--on tv, radio, etc.  The advantages to joining Egypt is Egyptian police would enforce law, Gaza would have reps in Egyptian parliament. Gazans could receive Egyptian passports, no one has to move anywhere--the Egyptian border is re-drawn to include Gaza.

    If I were a Gaza resident, I would prefer to become an Egyptian.  It's a theory. I understand AAHMSE Hamas won't allow the plebicite.

    •  Hamas is a political party/militant organization. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sandbox, BMScott, corvo, chuckvw, Jersey Jon

      Who knows, maybe they'll be voted out / replaced, so keep that in mind.

      It is a possibility but people have a bond with certain identities. I am a Texan even though I have lived out of the US fo 30 years.

      I don't know how that will affect things. We have to keep in mind the practical side and the emotional side.

      I'm busy so I have to keep this short. Hopefully we can continue soon.

      Thanks.

      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Wed Jul 16, 2014 at 03:01:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Gazans speak a different dialect of Arabic (9+ / 0-)

      One that is much further from Egyptian Arabic than Australian is from American English. It's almost it's almost a separate language. I see no Gazans advocating for this at all, nor have I ever seen them do such. Egypt was another invader.

      As for the practicality, I'd bet the situation in Egypt isn't such that they could hold a free and fair plebesite on anything. Given the conditions in Gaza, as well as the probable resistance from Hamas, the likelihood is around zero that it could work.

      But, again, I'm not sure anyone there wants this. Including Egypt.

      No War but Class War

      by AoT on Wed Jul 16, 2014 at 03:20:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But it is a very interesting exchange of (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tonedevil, BMScott, Jersey Jon

        ideas. I have enjoyed it.

        The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
        Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

        by InAntalya on Wed Jul 16, 2014 at 03:28:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And on a lighter note: (8+ / 0-)
          Gazans speak a different dialect of Arabic One that is much further from Egyptian Arabic than Australian is from American English
          Like Texan and English?

          :)

          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Wed Jul 16, 2014 at 03:31:14 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Much different. (0+ / 0-)

            My Arabic is rusty these days, but back when I was working on it I couldn't understand Egyptian Arabic to save my life If I was hearing it because of the accent, but with Levantine Arabic I couldn't understand half the sentence structures. It's all terribly varied and in some ways can be thought of as a language family as much as a single language with dialects. Most Arabic speakers can communicate with each other though. I should really go study some Arabic again, it really is a wonderful language.

            No War but Class War

            by AoT on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 02:24:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Come on, I'll bet the Gaza people (0+ / 0-)

        listen to Arabic stations on TV and radio from Egypt and understand it fine.  If you think no one will vote yes, then why not have the vote and see?

        •  I don't think (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sandbox

          I don't think the problem would be the Palestinians of Gaza. I think the Egyptians don't want them.

          I don't know how I'm meant to act with all of you lot. Sometimes I don't try, I just na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na

          by Zornorph on Wed Jul 16, 2014 at 05:59:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Indeed, everyone in the Arabic world listens to (0+ / 0-)

          Egyptian music and watches Egyptian TV and Movies. It's the largest Arab nation and has the most cultural impact. The point was not that they can't communicate, it's that they aren't Egyptian, they are Palestinian. They don't see themselves as Egyptian.

          Egypt doesn't see them as Egyptian either. And if Egypt was going to annex Gaza it had the chance decades ago. It's  not impossible, but I don't see the Gazans going for it under anything like current circumstances. I would bet that 30 or so years after there's peace between Palestinians and Israel Gaza will break away given it's physical distance from the West Bank. Maybe after that.

          No War but Class War

          by AoT on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 02:30:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  People forget that Egyptians and Palestinians (9+ / 0-)

        are very different. And it's not only a matter of speaking very different dialects of Arabic.

        They have had very different recent histories over at least the last 200 years - Egypt wasn't part of the Ottoman empire since the Napoleonic invasion and for centuries before that its link to Istanbul was merely nominal at the most, whereas Palestine was an Ottoman province till the collapse of the empire after WW1.

        Even religion-wise, they belong to different traditions of Islam (albeit under the broad umbrella of Sunnism), not to mention that many Palestinians have not been Moslem but Christian - and Egyptian Christans (mainly Copts) belong to a different denomination from Palestinian Christians (who are mainly Melkite).

        And I shan't even bother to go into their very different ethnic antecedents...

        We're shocked by a naked nipple, but not by naked aggression.

        by Lepanto on Wed Jul 16, 2014 at 03:39:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Another racist (5+ / 0-)

      comment denying the Palestinian people their personhood.  As I said in a previous comment, you can pick any previous comment that sandbox has said and it will turn out to be either islamophobic or anti-arab.  

      The people of Palestine are looking for freedom.  Not a military dictatorship that the west and Israel support enthusiastically.  

    •  You do realize that Gaza is the home to many (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Alhambra, Egalitare

      Palestinian refugee camps. The majority of the people trapped in Gaza are not originally from Gaza. They came from various parts of Israel where they had lost their lands and homes.

      There are 5 million Palestinians living as refugees in Lebanon, Jordan and Syria. Now you want to push some into Egypt. Looks like ethnic cleansing to me.

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