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View Diary: Pope Francis Met With the Head of the Family - the Secretive Politicians Based in DC Townhouse (171 comments)

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  •  I had an inkling that this was selective reporting (3+ / 0-)
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    eeff, michelewln, Fishtroller01

    and it looks like from your links that indeed it was.

    While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

    by GoGoGoEverton on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:14:26 AM PDT

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    •  It Always Is (2+ / 0-)
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      greenbell, Yoshimi

      If you check out everything she has written is an Anti-Catholic, Anti-Pope Francis screed with links to nothing but the same anti-Catholic conspiracy theories that have existed for hundreds of years. She has the same creed for me on Pope Francis as Darrell Issa does on Benghazi.

      "A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world." Oscar Wilde

      by michelewln on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:43:06 AM PDT

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      •  You obviously haven't read my diaries. (3+ / 0-)

        Nor can you furnish even one quote from any of them which would justify your smears.

        •  Read Your Diaries (2+ / 0-)
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          greenbell, Yoshimi

          I have read your diaries and I'm not impressed. They are no better than conspiracy diaries. You cherry pick things you think are "Benghazi" and ignore anything that has been said or done that is positive. Nothing your write has any resemblance to balanced reporting. You are reporting only one extremist viewpoint. You use only obscure sources that mirror your view and ignore other sources that contradict what you say including well known writers from well known and respected sources. I am not smearing you.

          Please proceed Governor.

          "A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world." Oscar Wilde

          by michelewln on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 08:09:40 AM PDT

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      •  The Catholic Church in America is a GOTV operation (4+ / 0-)

        for the Republican deserves criticism, and such criticism can be delivered without the bigotry you are claiming.

        •  When Democrats don't show up at Mass (1+ / 0-)
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          don't blame the priests for talking to their new constituents in Spanish.  Mass is by far the most diverse place I go - Vietnamese, Hmong, Sudanese, Hispanics, many second and now third generation often from a family originally sponsored by a Catholic parish.  

          Democrats once had almost all the Catholic vote.  They still get half of it.  It's an enormous demographic and it cannot be replaced for the very reason that Democrats are counting on Hispanics for their future as they pretty much write off white men and older whites.  

          Wherever Betty and you others think you're going with this anti-Catholic b.s., it's not to winning national and statewide elections.  

          Catholics + evangelicals are a formidable voting block.  One might give the Pope credit for understanding this.  In that, he is a lot smarter than Betty.

          •  It isn't "anti-Catholic" and it isn't "b.s." (3+ / 0-)
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            Betty Clermont, a2nite, Fishtroller01

            It is fact-based legitimate criticism of the Pope and the church hierarchy.

            The actions of Francis are thus far not significantly difference from those of Ratzinger.

            But because of a few soundbites, you want him declared "off limits".

            The idea that we have to self-censor ourselves when speaking of the Catholic church because Hispanics is ludicrous.

            •  Hey, it's a free country (3+ / 0-)
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              nickrud, Yoshimi, Liberal for Life

              You can be as anti-Catholic as you like, and what counts is how it is perceived by Catholics because we tune in for all the CT like Betty saying we can't get the story because Catholics control the media - just try that on one of your other religious groups and see how far you get with it not being anti-.  

              Of course, when 99% of everything written about the RCC and its leaders come from the complicit media
              What you CANNOT do is BOTH alienate Catholics AND win national elections.  

              But it is totally your choice.   The cognitive dissonance on this is after all one of the more entertaining aspects of DKos.  

              •  I think you need to brush up on your reading (2+ / 0-)
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                a2nite, Fishtroller01

                comprehension skills. Yes, 99% of what's being written about this pope and the Catholic Church does come from the Vatican press, the Catholic and corporate media.

                •  Hey, anti-Catholic CT including control of media (0+ / 0-)

                  is welcomed on Dkos so go to it.  There's NOTHING you can say about Catholics that's going to get you banned around here -- but one thing it will not do is win you elections.  Because unlike some other religions, one thing we got is your voters.  That's what we have.  Voters.  And you are not going to round up enough atheists to replace us.

                  So carry on!

              •  Betty is not trying to alienate Catholics. (1+ / 0-)
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                run around

                She's trying to educate them.  It seems for some it certainly is a fruitless effort.

                I tend to think that most Catholics are smarter than that, especially when you think of the fact that most of them use birth control.

          •  Agreed. The pope understands Catholics+evangelical (1+ / 0-)
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            are a formidable voting bloc which is exactly the point I was making. I also made the point in my book, "The Neo-Catholics: Implementing Christian Nationalism in America" (Clarity Press, 2009) and in this diary:

            BTW, Democrats get the majority of the Hispanic Catholic vote and the Republicans the majority of the non-Hispanic Catholic vote.

            •  Well keep up your work Betty and Republicans (0+ / 0-)

              will be getting both groups particularly as Hispanics become second and third generation voters.  Voting is as much social and cultural with many people as political, something the Republicans figured out long ago.  

              The only way Democrats win is by splitting the Catholic - evangelical bloc not by reinforcing it.  The goal should be to figure out how to attract Catholics to the Democratic Party not how to alienate us from the party.  

              •  You think Hispanics are going to vote for the (2+ / 0-)
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                Betty Clermont, Fishtroller01

                party of white supremacy and tax cuts for the rich done on the backs of the poor because people complain that the Catholic Church hierarchy are aligning themselves with that party?

                I guess you don't know many Hispanics.

                •  white fundies vote to screw themselves for Jesus (0+ / 0-)

                  all the time.  Why would Hispanic Catholics be any different?

                  Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

                  by Visceral on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 10:05:55 AM PDT

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                •  Well, my parents took me to see JFK when I was 9 (0+ / 0-)

                  because he was IRISH and CATHOLIC. What else did I need to know?  20 years later Irish Catholics were leaving the Democratic Party by the millions.

                  Hispanics will be influenced by many factors and religion will be one social and cultural influence.   One thing I do know, the Catholic Church wants Hispanics every bit as much as the Democratic Party.  They're not just the future of the American Democratic Party.  They're the future of the American Catholic Church.  So if you're not talking to them every Sunday, their priest is.  

              •  I appreciate your giving much thought to this. (1+ / 0-)
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                However, currently I don't there's much of a "Catholic" bloc of voters as there was a generation or two ago when many urban European hyphenated-Americans (like Irish, Italian, Poles) were dependably Democrats. I think the situation has changed in that the second and third generation Hispanics are currently majority Democrats and those non-Hispanics Catholics who remain as practising Catholics (i.e. not part of the majority who have left or aren't practising any longer) are majority Republicans.  

              •  NO party should be thinking of how to "attract" (0+ / 0-)

                religious voters to their party. This is a secular Democracy and courting religion should be off the table. (However I am well aware of the Obama campaign and other Dems hiring religious outreach workers and speaking in churches... basically everyone is violating church/state these days).

                Just HOW does one attract Catholic votes? By hosting wine and cracker parties or by taking the right and moral stands on social, political and foreign policy issues?  

                If you are saying that the Democratic Party should hold a love fest with the Pope to win votes, then I'm outta here!

          •  So Betty should shut up so the Dems (0+ / 0-)

            can keep the Catholic vote?  Are you an American?

          •  Voting for the wrong side and the wrong (0+ / 0-)

            policies, and hence a lot dumber than Betty.

            That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

            by enhydra lutris on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 10:48:22 AM PDT

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      •  If your only comment is to accuse (0+ / 0-)

        a diarist of writing constantly on the same topic, why don't you go bother the pootie diaries or the environmental diaries or any of the other single topic writers.

        It is YOU who are guilty of screeds.

        If you'd like to counter my charge, then take a claim made in any of Betty's diaries and counter it with research of your own... with links and footnotes.

        I haven't seen even one of the usual RCC/Francis apologists on Kos who haunt Betty's diaries spend one single minute making any effort to prove her wrong either in a comprehensive comment or in a diary.

    •  These meetings were not widely reported for a (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      run around, JVolvo, a2nite, Fishtroller01


    •  It's only mildly selective (1+ / 0-)
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      I did some checking up on this.

      Yes, there are some meetings with liberal factions. Some.

      But there are many many more meetings with conservative factions. And many large liberal factions that are left out completely.

      Now, how much of that is the Pope? How much of it is conservative factions within the Vatican manipulating his schedule? We can't know that for sure. But what we do know is that his ear is getting bent primarily by conservative factions; and that will almost assuredly lead to conservative-leaning policy.

      This is a common conservative tactic: if you can't control the election, surround the elected with whisperers, isolate them, don't let them hear the people.

      "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

      by nosleep4u on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 08:04:56 AM PDT

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