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View Diary: Pope Francis Met With the Head of the Family - the Secretive Politicians Based in DC Townhouse (171 comments)

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  •  You cannot... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nosleep4u, Fishtroller01

    Change an organization by meeting them in secret.

    “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck (Disputed)

    by RichM on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 08:11:28 AM PDT

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    •  If it was that secret we wouldn't know about it (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Yoshimi

      Considering the Pope more or less excommunicated the Mafia in his own country, I'm inclined to grant him a small benefit of the doubt on meetings with powerful interest groups.

      I'm as ex-Catholic as they come, and that's why I can see that a decent man like Pope Francis can't mend a broken institution in just one or two years.  I only hope he makes some progress while he is still alive.

      The Cake is a lie. In Pie there is Truth. ~ Fordmandalay

      by catwho on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:06:41 AM PDT

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      •  He's been pope for 18 months now and has not taken (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RichM, ScienceMom, Fishtroller01

        a single step to protect children from rapist priests.

        What's your basis for claiming he is a "decent man"?

        •  How do you know he hasn't? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Yoshimi

          Do you work at the Vatican?  Just because he hasn't personally gone out and shot every one of them doesn't mean he hasn't take some preliminary actions to punish them.

          Skeletons in the closet (more like rotting corpses in this case) also can't be instantly cleaned up.  

          I need evidence like any other skeptic that his policies are having an effect, but the Catholic church is essentially a giant corporation and you can't fix every single problem on day one without getting yourself put high on the assassination list.

          The Cake is a lie. In Pie there is Truth. ~ Fordmandalay

          by catwho on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:39:26 AM PDT

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          •  I know he hasn't because the bishops who do things (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ScienceMom, Fishtroller01, RichM

            like claim under oath that they weren't sure if they knew that sexual abuse of a minor by a priest was a crime are still in their jobs.

            Do you want me to believe that he has secretly told them all that yes I know you are neck deep in this crap but don't do it any more?

            And I'm not demanding "instant" results. He has been pope for 18 months now.

            Nothing has changed.

          •  Because the media is saturated with headlines (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Fishtroller01

            every time he mentions sex abuse. Since we all knew when he dumped the "Bishop of Bling" we would certainly all know about his actions against his complicit hierarchs.

          •  don't tease (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            catwho
            Just because he hasn't personally gone out and shot every one of them
            This is one of the most frustrating things about being one of the good guys: you can't go medieval on the people who actually deserve it.

            As for this:

            and you can't fix every single problem on day one without getting yourself put high on the assassination list.
            A true believer in God, Heaven, and Hell wouldn't care about dying.  In fact it would be better to do the right thing and be killed for it than to live a long comfortable life tolerating the wickedness in one's own house.

            Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

            by Visceral on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 10:24:56 AM PDT

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          •  This mess has gone on for over 60 years. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RichM

            And all Francis did was appoint another committee on the topic.

            And if Francis's life was in danger over cleaning out the pedophile closet then you have just confirmed the incredible corruption of this institution.

            No, Francis and the RCC has NO excuses, unless the world is willing to give them 2000 more years of chances to be moral.

            •  Try 600 years... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Fishtroller01, catwho

              Or perhaps longer. Changing a culture of refuge for sexual predators in 18 months after several centuries of ingrained and codified promotion, reward and status is not possible. You would arguably have to fire every single padre above the level of Parish Priest longer in service than 20 years. Beyond that, everyone in the hierarchy has guilty knowledge, and it is simply not politically possible for any leader to burn down the entire organization. That is not his job.. his job is to save the Church, and that means a slow and steady unwinding of the culture, starting with the worst of the worst, and going from there. Over time, things will be better, but if he moves too fast, the hierarchy will find SOMETHING on him. That is the way corporate culture works, and there is nothing in the Church which is not Corporate Culture.

              This is the reason I have always stood against Corporate Culture and Church and Religious Corporatism. It only exists for its own benefit; it has a life of its own, and that is NOT what a Religion OR a profit making entity is for. It is the ugly downside of group behavior in humans, and as enlightened people, we need to make sure no Corporate Enterprise EVER can challenge the Rights of Individuals. Ever.

              Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

              by OregonOak on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 11:35:28 AM PDT

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      •  Yet there's a reason they weren't publicized and (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ScienceMom, run around, Fishtroller01

        yes, "private" means secret and not open to the public.

        If you think public pronouncements with soundbite and PR appeal are equivalent to the dozens and dozens of appointments this pope has made of rightwingers and his private meetings with them, well then you do have the kind of pope you could support.

      •  Read the whole story on just exactly who (0+ / 0-)

        the Pope excommunicated.

    •  Unless the story was calculated to leak.. (0+ / 0-)

      if the Papa did not receive the response he wanted. THEN.. well there are open meetings and there are "open Meetings," and there are "closed meetings." If you catch my drift.

      I suspect he was there to warn them about mistakes they are making vis a vis his Skeptical Capitalism Message, and associating with Mob-Like figures, both of which he has publically named as objects of scorn to the Nuevo Franciscan Church. If he did not get some action or message in return, I dont think the Papa is above playing some down and dirty hardball. Remember, he played ball with the worst of the worst Fascists in Argentina, and survived, and saved two Social Activist Priests lives, probably, and probably more. I think his instincts are sharp in this area, and he sees what could happen if they "win." He has acute senses for the Fascist mentality and proceedure.

      I look at all the activities of the Church as fundamentally political. There is not a lot of "Christlike" thinking there, more Machiavellian. And good at it.

      Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

      by OregonOak on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 11:43:55 AM PDT

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