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View Diary: President Obama statement on downed airliner, situation in Ukraine (286 comments)

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  •  So does the U.S., with superior surveillance (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shaharazade, allenjo

    capabilities as well.

    The frog jumped/ into the old pond/ plop! (Basho)

    by Wolf10 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 09:20:43 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  US propaganda is all about propping up (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite, bluezen

      the corporate system world wide

      What is Russia's goal?

      •  empire (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        aaraujo, bluezen

        for mother russia, no outsiders needed or wanted.

      •  Suddenly, nobody recognizes an (10+ / 0-)

        actual oligarchy run by plutocrats with controlled media and politics.  I guess it's hiding in plain sight.

        Sooooooooo.................you don't have any questions for me after all?

        by Inland on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 09:36:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Regional economic and military power; (0+ / 0-)

        resistance to being incorporated into a U.S. dominated global economic system.

        Given the excesses of and the widespread privations suffered by Russians under the great post-Soviet privatization, it seems likely that the Russians view with great suspicion the private sector's ascendency over state power and national sovereignty in their own country and in the West.

        They see a system into which they do not wish to be assimilated except on their own terms. They are attempting to erect barriers to the unfettered hegemony of Western finance capital.

        The frog jumped/ into the old pond/ plop! (Basho)

        by Wolf10 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 09:50:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I see you don't mention Ukrainians in all that. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Utahrd, aaraujo, jdsnebraska

          Or downed airplanes.

          Just collateral damage in Russia's desire to be independent of the global economic system that wait a fucking second Russia stays afloat by selling oil and gas to the EU and has managed to end up with Ukraine's oil and gas reserves in Ukraine.  Doesn't seem like it's against the system at all.

          Sooooooooo.................you don't have any questions for me after all?

          by Inland on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 10:08:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I responded to you question as it was posed, (0+ / 0-)

            assuming you were addressing broader strategic scope.

            The downed plane was a tragic mistake and appears to do nothing but harm the interests of all parties involved. For comparisons sake you may wish to consider other incidents of military downing of civilian aircraft by Israel, the Soviet Union and the U.S.

            The U.S. paid International Court ordered reparations to the families of Iranian flight 655 but never apologized or admitted wrongdoing.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/...

            As for the Ukrainians, I'm sure we see the situation quite differently. I see a Western supported coup meeting legitimate resistance. Unfortunately the common people are being used as pawns in a great power conflict: plutocrats on one side oligarchs on the other.

            For me, as a U.S. citizen, the more proximate enemy and danger to our democracy are our very own plutocrats. When it comes to exporting democracy, we don't have a very good record. Indeed, we have a stronger record when it comes to exporting pro-capitalist dictatorships.

            We don't even seem to be able to maintain our own democracy.

             

            The frog jumped/ into the old pond/ plop! (Basho)

            by Wolf10 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 12:13:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Power conflict is between Ukrainians plus Russia. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ER Doc, Ahianne, Gator Keyfitz

              It's the vast majority of Ukrainians, who just had a quite serviceable election, versus a small minority who are aided by an oligarchy of plutocrats.

              Notably, Russia has already won, having obtained with the territory of Crimea some trillions of dollars of Black Sea oil and gas reserves.....which will be siphoned off to the same oligarchs.  

              The US has nothing to do with it.  The EU's involvement consists of a country that looks at the much richer Poland...by which I mean, much richer than Russia.... and realizes that peace and prosperity rests with closer ties to the West, not with the country that's based on extractive industries and being the prisonhouse of nations.

              It's not so complicated.

              Sooooooooo.................you don't have any questions for me after all?

              by Inland on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 12:33:08 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Like I said, we see things so differently that (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                allenjo

                there is no common agreement on what constitutes a fact which could form the basis further discussion. I'm on my planet, you're on yours. Have a nice weekend.

                The frog jumped/ into the old pond/ plop! (Basho)

                by Wolf10 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 12:57:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  So we can put you down as "US is causing it" (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  jdsnebraska, bluezen

                  for the next hundred conflicts and just leave you out? Sounds good to me.  It's not like you're helping.

                  Sooooooooo.................you don't have any questions for me after all?

                  by Inland on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 01:04:16 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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