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View Diary: SB 1070: Why I'm not going to Arizona (552 comments)

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  •  Well, aren't you just so precious? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    manyamile

    Progressive americans who won't venture out of their little bubbles of comfort and find out what those of us in the trenches are doing to make this a better country sound a lot like the "limo liberals" so many working class people have no respect for.

    Enjoy your ivory tower.  If you think you're helping anybody that needs help, you're shitting yourself.

    •  Listen (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Chi

      the first words I typed were FUCK OFF.

      On second thought, I have the same thoughts but a word of advice, insulting me won;t persuade me or anyone else I imagine.

      It's not novel.

       

    •  Oh come now... (8+ / 0-)

      We are speaking of not supporting a COMMERICAL venture.

      I've been in the trenches and I'm happy to go back in from time to time or to donate to those who are working there...but I'm not going to spend my money supporting a State that supports SB1070.

      NN isn't "the trenches" anymore than slow room service at my hotel is "roughing it".

      Wonders are many, but none so wonderful as man.

      by Morgan Sandlin on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 01:57:56 PM PDT

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      •  AZ is the trenches (obviously) (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CenPhx, manyamile

        Y'all want to help out, come on by and help us out.  Help us build some progressive visibility here, help us show some of the yahoos that we have a posse, that we aren't just here by ourselves.

        If the strongest action you can think of to help us is refusing to come here, cool, but nobody here is gonna feel like you helped out very much.

        You don't wanna believe me? ask La Raza, ask Grijalva.  The boycott meant something a couple years ago, now it's just navel gazing.

        •  Basically anyone who takes a different stance (11+ / 0-)

          is your enemy, right?  NN is the only thing that can help Arizona?  Battleground Texas might be a good template for Arizona Progressives.  They're making a huge difference here using OFA techniques.  I'm not sure Wendy Davis can win, I am sure she'll make Texas Republicans really nervous because of the grassroots organizing we're doing here.  If she does win it'll be because tens of thousands of Texans knocked on doors, made phone calls, registered voters, held issues parties for neighbors.  I'm not sure we depended on Markos or DK to get us motivated, and we're working hard despite few pro-Wendy diaries.  It's a great blog, it's not the source of progressive power.  

          I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

          by I love OCD on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 02:16:38 PM PDT

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          •  I'd love to see more pro-Wendy coverage (5+ / 0-)

            here, especially as we get closer to the general. (I'm hoping Mr. Scribe and I can spare a 10-spot or so after we get the next pension check.)

            There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

            by Cali Scribe on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 02:32:17 PM PDT

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          •  NN could help out a lot here (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            manyamile, BoiseBlue

            Participating in a boycott that doesn't actually exist, not so much.

            So, here's an opportunity for the Kos to bring some visibility and solidarity to progressives in AZ, but  . . .

            Nobody's my enemy, I just don't respect this decision or the nonsense excuse given for it.

            "I'm not crossing that picket line", he says.  But there isn't any picket line.  Sounds like a load of pewp to me.

            •  You don't need Kos to organize. You don't need (7+ / 0-)

              NN to turn AZ blue.  It's not a huge deal, it's a disappointment.  I'm not bailing on DK because people here post BS about Wendy Davis.  People here post half-assed opinions regularly.  It's a blog.

              I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

              by I love OCD on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 02:45:52 PM PDT

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              •  No, but it would help, maybe a lot (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                manyamile

                It's an opportunity for Kos to show some solidarity with those of us who live in places like this.  Show some of the fence sitting locals that there's more out there than they get from the local news.  Building the movement, y'know?  By going where it needs to grow.

                Instead we get a cowardly excuse of participating in a boycott that ended years ago.  (And honestly, that's what's really offensive about this: it's not like he was asked by anyone here to stay away to help us, just the opposite.  What bullshit.)

                I think we should go to Texas (and not just Austin) and Alabama and anywhere our progressive family could benefit from our presence.  Just pontificating from Berkeley about how things should be in AZ doesn't do much to change the situation.

            •  NN will be there (14+ / 0-)

              Anyone who wants to go can go, just not under the auspices of DailyKos. It's Markos' site, it's his name, he has that right. You may not like it, but it's his right, and Armando's right, and anybody else's right not to go. I understand your frustration but trying to harangue people into going isn't going to solve anything.
                    I've never been to an NN, not even the one in Chicago in 2007, for various reasons. Even if AZ didn't have SB1070 I wouldn't go because of the heat, can't stand it.

              the woman who is easily irritated

              by chicago minx on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 02:53:57 PM PDT

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              •  Fair enough about the heat. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                chicago minx

                I won't dis anybody for staying away for that reason.  If I was a rich dude, I'd be getting somewhere else for the summer (even though it isn't really that bad when you get used to it).

                Armando and Kos can do whatever they like, but they're here pontificating and we get to pontificate back, right?  That's the point of this whole exercise, innit?

                I think it's a cowardly decision with a bullshit excuse (a boycott that doesn't exist) attached to it.  I don't respect them for it.

                I'd like to see progressives go to places that need their presence.  When a major player chickens out it weakens the rest of us.

                •  That's fair (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Urizen

                  the woman who is easily irritated

                  by chicago minx on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 03:05:32 PM PDT

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                •  For Kos and Armando it's clearly a big deal. (11+ / 0-)

                  Why isn't that okay?  Why is not going based on "a bullshit excuse"?  You show zero respect for their strongly held beliefs and go one step further by denying that they HAVE strong feelings about this issue.  That's pretty crass of you.  Why is it so hard to simply allow people to think or feel differently than you do?  I wouldn't vote for Buddha if he ran as a Republican because of their disrespect for women.  That's my core issue.  I would abstain from voting if my choice was between a Republican and a sexist Democrat.  I'd vote on other offices, propositions, etc, but I could not vote for anyone who considers me inferior by reason of gender.  If you harangued me all day you wouldn't change my mind.  I respect that Kos and Armando have strong feelings about bringing money and attention to Arizona.  I understand being passionate about that.  It won't keep me from going to NN if I'm moved to go.  

                  NN didn't jump start Battleground Texas.  Texans built that.  

                  I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                  by I love OCD on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 04:17:18 PM PDT

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                  •  OK, the local progressives and hispanics (0+ / 0-)

                    don't want a boycott anymore.  We did in 2010 and made a lot of progress as a result of it.  Now it's time to move forward instead of back to 2010.  We won five of the nine house seats last time out.  The tide is turning.  The turd who wrote 1070 lost two elections since then.  Jan Brewer will be gone in january.

                    This is a hollow move from them, locking the barn doors after the horses got out.

                    Not having a strong progressive presence at NN (and don't kid yourself about the impact kos bailing will have on that) diminishes an event that could do a TON of good around here.  

                    This unsupported boycott won't do much of anything.
                    Boycotts only work when everybody's on board with them (like in 2010 when Baseball got behind it).

              •   i think it likely we won't be name dropping Kos (0+ / 0-)

                too much at  NN 15  after this.

                •  I would. I'd support any principled progressive (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  chiniqua, Unduna

                  anywhere, just as I'd call BS on BS anywhere.  It's not Middle School where the clique is the important thing. It's real life where different people have different core issues.  I'm not GLBTQ but I fight for everyone's human rights.  I don't demand proof that they're fighting for mine because it's not about them earning my support it's about my values.  

                  I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                  by I love OCD on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 07:05:48 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  Question: (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chiniqua, vitaminC, I love OCD, Cedwyn

      What is the objection to someone refusing to visit or spend money in a state whose government stops little short of declaring open season on him?

      Progressives, my ass!

      Strengthen the Senate! ROCK THE HOUSE!

      by mwm341 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 03:04:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Kos decided to boycott NN (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        manyamile

        because it was in AZ.  None of the progressives here are calling for a boycott any more (just the opposite).  He didn't bother to ask us rubes what it's actually like here, he just made up a paranoid fantasy and decided to act on it.  Like, y'know, a lot of people far more at risk of "open season" live here and thrive.  So, what this is (to us), is sanctimony pretending to be activism (which, since there is no boycott, isn't activism at all).

        Yeah, it might take a tiny bit of courage to come here (with a few thousand people in your support group) and find out how terribly scary it really is.  I guess that would have been too much to ask.

        My objection is to the cowardice, the low-info stereotyping, and the lameassedness of the excuse he made for boycotting NN (which, just for the record will be in a really safe place).

        •  If you have a problem with Kos making a choice (0+ / 0-)

          not to go to a place in which he, his family and people who look like him are potentially subject to a 'Papers, please' law that has real teeth, you should take it up with Kos. Or would that take more than the teeny-tiny bit of courage and large amount of ignorance that you have displayed so far?

          I'm very firmly with Kos on this one.

          Strengthen the Senate! ROCK THE HOUSE!

          by mwm341 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 11:20:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  You have made your point (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kj in missouri, Unduna

      throughout this thread, and it's a fair point until you start with this crap.

      You have insulted Armando repeatedly by calling his heart felt issue, in short, the "excuses of a limousine liberal." Not once, but several times, and in increasingly nasty ways.

      I think both sides have very legitimate points here, but your mud throwing is very distracting to your point---now you've got folks fighting for an individual's right to make their own decision, instead of talking about what you really want to talk about.

      Loosing the focus of your argument is the cardinal no no in the art of persuasion.

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 08:40:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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