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View Diary: Anti-minimum wage campaign boogey man tactics in California (67 comments)

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  •  And when enough of us get replaced (11+ / 0-)

    Then there will be no customers because nobody will have an income.

    Then the entire system will come crashing down - hard.

    That's basic economics.

    If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

    by Major Kong on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 05:57:39 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Someone who owns a couple of McD's (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sparhawk, VClib, Superpole

      franchises is not taking steps that will benefit the economy as a whole.  They are looking to see how they can keep their own profit margins on their own restaurants stable.  And when the add up the numbers, and it becomes more economic to replace some labor with technology, that's what they will do.  It's not any kind of vindictiveness toward workers.  It's business.  Business is about balancing revenue against expenses for an adequate return on investments.  When you significantly increase expenses, any for profit business is going to react to that.  

      You can certainly increase the minimum wage "modestly" -- the study I linked to in my original comment says that "modest" increases probably won't have a huge increase on employment levels, and the CBO estimates that an increase to $10.10 may only cost 500,000 or so jobs.  Still, that's 500,000 people who will be out of work.  And doubling the minimum wage certainly will cost a lot more jobs.  

      I would certainly support an increase in the minimum wage.  I would not support a nationwide increase so high that it has a big negative increase on jobs.  

      •  I wasn't talking about McDonalds specifically (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        thanatokephaloides, eyo, BusyinCA

        I realize the thread deals with fast-food specifically but I was making more of a general statement concerning automation.

        That's the elephant in the room nobody's talking about in today's economy.

        500,000 out of work will be a drop in the bucket compared to what I fear is coming.

        If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

        by Major Kong on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 06:27:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And how do you propose to change that? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sparhawk, VClib

          Very large increases in the minimum wage will only accelerate the trend toward automation replacing what economists call unskilled labor.  

          •  I didn't say I could change it (6+ / 0-)

            Just because I can see a see a tsunami coming doesn't mean I know how to stop a tsunami.

            It's not just unskilled labor. I haven't seen a navigator in many years and our last flight engineers retired last year.
            I figure I'll be lucky to make it to retirement before they replace me with a drone.

            I think many more skilled jobs will be either automated or sent offshore. A lot already have.

            At some point I think this will hit "critical mass".

            When that day happens we'll all be well and truly screwed.

            Enjoy.

            If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

            by Major Kong on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 06:40:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  While Automation Causes Some Jobs To Be Lost, It (0+ / 0-)

            also causes some jobs to be created - an example of this is, for example, candy production factories. With automation, you don't need as many people as you did 25 years ago producing candy - what used to be done by humans can now be done by machines -  but you DO need a person to run and service the machines that are used to produce the candy. Yes, I know - it replaces maybe 10 low skilled jobs with just 1 (usually technically skilled) job, but even automation can't entirely eliminate ALL jobs. Someone HAS to run and service the computers/machines.
            Unfortunately, Major Kong is correct - unless we do something drastic in the US (like lower our age for retirement), we are on track to have a chronic high unemployment rate, due to increasing automation, as fewer and fewer low skilled workers will be able to find jobs.

          •  But We're Not Going to See (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Stude Dude

            very large increases in the minimum wage-- on a national level.

            the recommended raise to $10.10 per hour nationally is to occur over 2.5 years. this has yet to be passed by the deadbeats in congress-- and let's face it, it's not likely to pass this year, due to this being an election year.

            further, I'm inclined to posit the min. wage is never going to be raised again on a national level, due to the overall inertia and ignorance present in congress.

            The best we can hope for is city initiatives-- in cities where the economy is doing OK and where the demand for QSR and restaurant workers overall is high.

            "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

            by Superpole on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 08:05:56 AM PDT

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      •  It's not "business," it is capitalism... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dumpster

        there are businesses all over the country and the world that make this calculation and still pay more for staff because of the need for customer satisfaction and security. If we would stand up to the businesses that treat us like drones and push their labor costs off on the customer, laughingly for the ostensible reason of customer convenience, then we would see less of this technology. It is not the businesses that kill jobs, it is the customers who shop at the businesses and accept this dreck, that kill jobs.

        "Intelligence is quickness in seeing things as they are..." George Santayana

        by KJG52 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 10:51:47 PM PDT

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      •  a concern troll expressing concern, (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        eyo, DBoon

        how................different. not really, just thought I'd say that.

        econ 101:

        increasing the supply of disposable income, at lower income levels, results in increased demand for products and services. in turn, this increased demand results in increased employment, as employers seek to serve the increased demand for their product/service.

        the bottom line:

        any unemployment, directly attributable to an increase in the minimum wage, will result in a decrease in sales of products/services, due to fewer employee's to handle them, absent increased automation. if the lost job doesn't affect sales, it pretty much means that the job wasn't needed to begin with, or the retained employee's have increased their productivity.

        employers don't hire just because they feel like it, they hire as a direct response to need. increased demand generates increased need. that's how economics works.

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