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View Diary: President Obama statement on Ukraine (179 comments)

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  •  The people voted on it, don't you remember. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, eightlivesleft

    "Fragmented and confused, we have no plan to combat any of this, but are looking to be saved by the very architects of our ruination."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 08:55:31 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  And you think the election was free and fair? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bananapouch1, clambake, TofG

      The people running their new government had gotten IIRC, something like 10% in the previous election.

      •  No one has provided evidence it wasn't. (0+ / 0-)

        If you can, I'll look at it.  

        "Fragmented and confused, we have no plan to combat any of this, but are looking to be saved by the very architects of our ruination."

        by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 09:32:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  so you would be okay (5+ / 0-)

          if Russia invaded your city, seized control of it and then had an 'election' that was not internationally monitored and just happened to give Russia the result it wanted?

          Der Weg ist das Ziel

          by duhban on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 09:33:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm talking about evidence man. We've been (0+ / 0-)

            over this one.  Russia did not invade. Prove it.

            "Fragmented and confused, we have no plan to combat any of this, but are looking to be saved by the very architects of our ruination."

            by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 09:34:44 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I can't prove anything to you (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bananapouch1, TofG

              because you will not listen you're too busy bashing America. Oh did I say bashing I meant criticizing.

              Der Weg ist das Ziel

              by duhban on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 09:36:34 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Ya, I'm an anti-American, (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Choco8

                DFH, commie pinko fag.
                Heard it all before.

                "Fragmented and confused, we have no plan to combat any of this, but are looking to be saved by the very architects of our ruination."

                by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 09:41:35 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  it's funny (0+ / 0-)

                  because I never said any of that. It's very interesting how certain people here will throw up this strawman when you point out that they seem more concerned  with pearl clutching bad America! than actually talking about the issues.

                  I asked you a very serious question because that is what happened in the Crimera. No honest person really can look at that election and say it was legit. It may be that the people of Crimera would honestly vote to be part of Russia. Then again I personally find that people don't cheat unless they feel they wouldn't win.

                  Der Weg ist das Ziel

                  by duhban on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 09:47:45 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Like I said, if someone can provide evidence (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    TofG

                    that the Crimea voting was rigged or the result influenced by Russia, then I'll look at it.  I've had these same conversation previously and asked the same thing and none of the people I asked have been able to provide it.  So have at it if you want to waste your time with me.
                    I'm ready for some gardening.  

                    "Fragmented and confused, we have no plan to combat any of this, but are looking to be saved by the very architects of our ruination."

                    by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 10:03:31 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  you mean you haven't already? (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      tekno2600, charlatan

                      because you've been spreading bullshit around this diary for some time now. You want to seriously pretend the elections in Crimera were legit that's up to you.

                      Enjoy your day

                      Der Weg ist das Ziel

                      by duhban on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 10:06:58 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  You don't know what evidence means. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      duhban, charlatan

                      When we see the sunrise in the morning, we don't ask for evidence. It's a fact. When Russia annexes Crimea, you don't need evidence that an invasion occurred. It's a fact. One day, people had Ukrainian passports. Then a bunch of masked me flew in speaking a foreign language (Russian) with their watches set to Moscow time. And, suddenly there was an election to make the territory part of Russia. If you don't understand the fact that that is an invasion, then what you need are thinking skills, not evidence.

                      Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

                      by tekno2600 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 11:24:52 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Oh is that right, you don't need evidence, you (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        eightlivesleft

                        just know the evil Putin did it.  Really what I'm looking for is where you get your information.  Why do you think this, where is your evidence?  You can't provide any links to back up your assertions and even if you did they would be from the corporate media, who we all should know is a propaganda machine.  
                        So provide some links so I can tear them apart.
                        BTW, yours is the exact same narrative the neocons are spreading.  That the Russians invaded Ukraine.  

                        "Fragmented and confused, we have no plan to combat any of this, but are looking to be saved by the very architects of our ruination."

                        by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 11:42:48 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I provided links upstream. I'm not going to keep (0+ / 0-)

                          repeating them, especially for a koolaid drinker like you. And how do you know you're going to tear my links apart? Sounds like you've already made up your mind and decided to defend Putin at all costs. So, you'll probably just pull a bunch of propaganda straight off RT or Alex Jones, even though that nonsense has zero credibility. This is an interesting Freudian slip about your lack of objectivity.

                          And, what is this BS about calling anyone who criticizes Putin a neocon? You obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about, especially when you hurl this insult at me just for observing the obvious: That Putin invaded Crimea (FACT) and that his maskirovka agents, including GRU colonel Igor Girkin, invaded eastern Ukraine (FACT).

                          Don't call me a neocon. I won't put up with it, especially from a person who doesn't have one clue what he's talking about.

                          Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

                          by tekno2600 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 12:03:47 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  You sound like a neocon when it comes to (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            eightlivesleft

                            how you talk about Putin and Russia.  Have you visited the neocon websites like FPI and AEI?  Check out what Cheney is saying about Putin it might sound familiar.  
                            The thing is I look at the evidence and opinions the mainstream media and our government provides and I look at alternative media evidence and opinions, then I decide for myself.  It sounds like you're the one that doesn't want to look at alternative opinions and evidence.  And I'm not taking about RT and Alex Jones, two places I rarely visit. Sometimes I'll read a RT article but it's certainly not on my daily list.  
                            My point, like I told someone else, is we're being led into another Cold War, at least, and I'm not going to support that.  The propaganda has been focused on Putin this and that since before the Olympics, and now it's reached a fever pitch with the downing of this plane.  
                            We can't let this evolve into something more dangerous, which is what the real neocons do want.  

                            "Fragmented and confused, we have no plan to combat any of this, but are looking to be saved by the very architects of our ruination."

                            by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 12:10:36 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Putin is trying to start a Cold War. But this time (0+ / 0-)

                            it will be an economic one this time, and one he will quickly lose.

                            Just cowering away from a threat does not protect you from it. It actually does the opposite.

                            I don't keep up with neocons, and I have no interest in reading Cheney's views. I don't even think they use that terms for themselves anymore, since their views have been so discredited.

                            However, I am not going to be a coward and refuse to say that Putin is a dictator; that he invaded, occupied and illegally annex Crimea; that he is running a covert terror campaign in eastern Ukraine using masked Russian agents and paid thugs; and that he reckless supplied advanced weapons that a bunch of drunken fools used to murder 298 innocent people.

                            Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

                            by tekno2600 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 12:27:52 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

            •  Al, those maked troops...Putin finally admitted (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              charlatan, duhban

              they were Russian. Sorry you didn't get the memo. That was an invasion, occupation, and annexation.

              Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

              by tekno2600 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 11:18:59 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  If you believe over 90% of the people voted for (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          charlatan

          annexation, you would make a good apparatchik. Even in Stalin's time, they tried to make the elections look a little more fair than that.

          Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

          by tekno2600 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 11:17:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  There is no way that a regional election (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tony Situ, jdsnebraska, tekno2600

      regarding secession should be considered authoritative. To do that kind of thing, you need national consensus.

      We have that in our constitution. I don't know whether the Ukrainians do or not, but it would be an incredibly foolhardy thing not to have something like that. However, even if they do not, simple common sense requires it.

      How could you ever have a nation with a future, if at any moment some region could randomly have an election and say, Sorry neighbors, we're leaving and taking all of your famlies, investments, and infrastructure with us?

      The one time that a regional election makes sense is before action is taken nationally, as a preliminary. In other words, if Crimea wanted to leave Ukraine, having a regional vote would be a good first step. However, the next step would necessarily be at the national level. If that failed, then the process would end there.

    •  In a referendum Ukraine never agreed to, a (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jdsnebraska, tekno2600, charlatan

      referendum set up by Putin's invading forces.
      Wow, the Putin apologists are really something else.

      You guys rant on andon about the horrible "imperialism" of Obama and the US and NATO, yet when blatant imperialism is staring you right in the face, that of Putin, you find any way you can to condone it or even outright support it.

      IOKIYAP = It's ok if you are Putin. smh

      •  You're sounding like Cheney again Tony. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        eightlivesleft

        Him and the neocons.  They hate Putin too.  
        I don't like Putin either, but I don't want another Cold War and I'll be damned if I'll let suckers like you drag us into another one.

        "Fragmented and confused, we have no plan to combat any of this, but are looking to be saved by the very architects of our ruination."

        by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 10:23:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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