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View Diary: President Obama statement on Ukraine (179 comments)

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  •  Yeah, being arrested would have been a nice, (4+ / 0-)

    lawful alternative.  But sniping and not arresting tends to piss people off.

    Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

    by Inland on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 09:04:48 AM PDT

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    •  Couple of things (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neneburge

      I don't know whether you have ever been to Ukraine, but there are protests going on there pretty much non-stop since 1989.  Some of them for petty things, some for big things.

      It is so common that there are professional protesters who would go and join protest for a couple of bucks.

      During Yanukovich presidency there were any number of protests.  The most noteworthy were protests against imprisonment of Yuliya Timoshenko and protests against language law.  Both of them involved thousands and thousands of people on the streets, and occasional hand-to-hand combat in the halls of Ukrainian Supreme Soviet.

      As far as snipers, it is still not established completely who the snipers were (Ukrainian government investigation is still ongoing), it is established that they shot both protesters and riot police.

      But regardless all this, why not call things what they are.  Peaceful protests are peaceful protests.  From the Civil Right era, we know what peaceful protests look like.  We also know how violent response from police looks like.  We also know how militants behave.

      So, in Ukraine, it is what it is.  The protests started peacefully, then there were several clashes with police and protests turned first into violent riot and then into armed uprising.

      Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, and socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality - Mikhail Bakunin

      by eskhisov on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 09:34:45 AM PDT

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      •  Well, if so... (0+ / 0-)
        So, in Ukraine, it is what it is.  The protests started peacefully, then there were several clashes with police and protests turned first into violent riot and then into armed uprising.
        Then your analogy of me just showing up and attacking police just for kicks isn't what happened in Ukraine.  I think we all know that.

        Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

        by Inland on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 09:41:58 AM PDT

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        •  You are missing my point (0+ / 0-)

          My point is that peaceful protests were and are often attacked by police in all parts of the world, including US.

          At this point protesters have a choice to make: either to remain peaceful in hopes of calling attention to their plight, or turn to violence.  

          So, they can be entirely justified to turn to violence.  However, if they do that, they are no longer peaceful protesters.  Call it riot, uprising, militant action, but you can call it peaceful protest anymore.

          No one ever called Palestinian intifada 1 or 2 a peaceful protest, regardless of political sympathies of the observer in question.

          Yet in case of Ukraine, when it has long become violent militarized fight with Western half of the country essentially overrun by people sometimes armed with AK-47, US media kept calling it a peaceful protest.

          Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, and socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality - Mikhail Bakunin

          by eskhisov on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 11:07:47 AM PDT

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      •  Don't start with the "protestors shot their own (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        charlatan

        people to blame the government" narrative.

        Bullshit. Pure bullshit.

        And if anyone says "false flag," I have perfected new technology that allows me to reach through the screen and slap the shit out of you.

        Don't test me.

        Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

        by tekno2600 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 10:41:59 AM PDT

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        •  All I am saying is that we do not know (0+ / 0-)

          who the snipers were.

          New Ukrainian government has already blamed, in order: "foreign agents", Ukrainian Berkut, Ukrainian Alpha, Russian FSK.  And the investigation is still ongoing.  Add to this list that Russians are blaming CIA and rebels themselves, and that's pretty much an exhaustive list of usual suspects.

          So all I am saying is that we just do not know at this point who did it.

          Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, and socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality - Mikhail Bakunin

          by eskhisov on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 10:56:46 AM PDT

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          •  We do know. A so-called investigation is a good (0+ / 0-)

            way to confuse people who want to be confused. There are credible claims, like the government shot the protestors. Then, there are asinine claims, like some so-called medic who claims that the bullet wounds looked suspicious and that that means the rebels did it. Don't dignify that kind of horseshit a moment's credibility. We do know what happened. Aliens didn't do it. Bigfoot didn't do it. No, I'm not going to investigate Bigfoot. You can wrap yourself in a pretzel for years, but we know beyond all REASONABLE doubt what happened. You will never convince people who want to believe unreasonable things.

            Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

            by tekno2600 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 11:50:39 AM PDT

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