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View Diary: President Obama statement on Ukraine (179 comments)

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  •  Every piece of evidence (1+ / 0-)
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    including that repeatedly referenced in Western mainstream media, is of questionable authenticity.  The only reason to ignore that fact is a deep emotional commitment to a simple narrative.  In this case, Obama, America and Ukraine good; Putin and Russia bad.

    If that sounds like the sheep in Animal Farm, it is.  And that's the saddest thing about this Administration.  It has reduced Democrats to sheep.

    A terrible beauty is born. --W.B. Yeats

    by eightlivesleft on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 09:45:02 AM PDT

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    •  You don't have any basis on which to say the (1+ / 0-)
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      evidence is questionable. In fact, they phone calls and social media posts have been verified  more and more each day. You're the one who wants to believe a simple narrative. I understand not trusting the US government without evidence. But, at least we have produced some. You shouldn't be taking he word of a dictator who has offered not one fact to explain how he is not to blame for this. It's not even clear if he's blaming the Ukrainians. He's just saying he's not responsible, whatever that means. I guess the tooth fairy did it.

      Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

      by tekno2600 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 11:12:06 AM PDT

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      •  Unless he/she lives in Russia... (2+ / 0-)
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        BelgianBastard, turnover

        and has been only getting a steady diet of insane conspiracy theories.

        But in Russia, television—most of it owned or controlled by the Kremlin—is trying to muddy the water with various experts who insist that there is no way that an SA-11 missile system could possibly have downed a plane flying that high. And, mind you, this is not part of a larger debate of could they, or couldn’t they; this is all of Russian television and state-friendly papers pushing one line: The pro-Russian separatists we’ve been supporting all these months couldn’t have done this. Watching some of these Russian newscasts, one comes away with the impression of a desperate defense attorney scrounging for experts and angles, or a bad kid caught red-handed by the principal, trying to twist his way out of a situation in which he has no chance.

        And that’s when they’re not simply peddling conspiracy theories, which have become a kind of symbiotic feedback loop between state TV and the most inventive corners of the Internet. The best of the bunch is, of course, an elaborate one: MH17 is actually MH370, that Malaysia Airlines flight that disappeared into the Indian Ocean. According to this theory, the plane didn’t disappear at all, “it was taken to an American military base, Diego-Garcia.”

    •  No. (0+ / 0-)

      It's not about good and evil.

      It's about verifiable facts.

      Fact: Apart from the rebels, no one has claimed that they shot down an aircraft in Ukrainian airspace.
      Fact: The rebels were boasting about having the missiles in question, complete with Russian media touting that.
      Fact: The rebels were rejoicing shooting down an airplane right after MH17 was shot down, and then quickly deleted those posts once tgey realized what happened.
      Fact: Multiple intercepts have been aired showing rebels discussing having shot down the plane. Not one shred of evidence has been provided to contradict these intercepts as being true.
      Fact: Ukraine had no reason to shoot at planes, since the rebeks have no planes.
      Fact: The rebels have consistent lied, covered up and obfuscated the facts in this case, if they aren't guilty, why would they do that? Panic might explain thw first few hours but not their actiins days later.
      Fact: The rebels and Russian media are floating PATHETIC CT theories, again, what other motive than an equally pathetic cover up is there for these actions? MH370 full of corpses??? Puhlease.

      No. This is cut and dried.

      I ride the wild horse .

      by BelgianBastard on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 09:25:06 PM PDT

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