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View Diary: Israel admits HAMAS didn't kidnap the 3 Israeli teens after all (565 comments)

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    •  I did read it (11+ / 0-)

      and "someone" said that Hamas wasn't responsible.

      I guess that's pretty conclusive.  

      But I do wonder why Hamas increased rocket fire (which had been going on consistently since just a few months after the last cease-fire) into southern Israel in the weeks before the kidnapping. In fact, it was well before the kidnapping, and well before a single Israeli attack on Gaza.

      •  I suspect you already know the answer (53+ / 0-)

        but, in pretending to search for the 3 kids, Israeli authorities as part of "Operation Brother's Keeper" killed a handful of Palestinians, arrested hundreds, destroyed property, and disturbed multitudes, prior to assassinating still others.  In other words, they escalated until they provoked a response they could seize as a replacement pretext for the first pretext of searching for kids of whose bodies they already knew the location.

        Iron sharpens Iron. Normal is a dryer setting. STOP illegal immigration NOW! -- Make it LEGAL. If Corporations are People--Let's draft them.

        by benamery21 on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 07:59:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Came here to say the same thing (14+ / 0-)

        I read the article as well.  It was Breitbartian pap.  Not one name cited to back up the claim.

        Not one.

        "Someone" said it wasn't Hamas.

        Who?

        Apparently no one here cares.  It's enough for them.  

        Three teenagers killed execution style.  But it was just some local bros. Or something.

        I can't even call that article shoddy journalism.  More like shoddy fan fiction.

        •  Yeah, I thought so too (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          WinSmith, NoMoJoe, Lying eyes, JNEREBEL

          I just posted the same question at the bottom.  Probably should have read all the comments first.

          The article claims "officials" said it wasn't Hamas.  What officials?  An official buzzfeed reporter who was told it by "experts and Palestinians"?   Someone in the Israeli government?  I have no idea.  The claim may even be true, but the article presents no evidence.

          Breitbartian pap was a very good way to put it. Guess our side isn't immune either.  

          "Journalistic conventions make it hard for reporters to deal with a big, complicated lie." -- Michael Kinsley.

          by dcg2 on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 10:43:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Micky Rosenfeld, israel police spokesman (22+ / 0-)

            You can read more about it at the Daily Dot.  Here is the "tweet" from Jon Donnison.  Perhaps he is an anti-Semitic Hamas sleeper agent, but his day job is a reporter for the BBC:


            Jon Donnison        ✔   @JonDonnison  
            Follow
            Israeli police MickeyRosenfeld tells me men who killed 3 Israeli teens def lone cell, hamas affiliated but not operating under leadership1/2

            7:28 AM - 25 Jul 2014

            Perhaps the Israel police spokesman for foreign press is not an "Israeli official."  My Orwellian vocabulary is rusty these days, I'm sure WinSmith can help out.
            •  You mean the guy who said it was Hamas? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JNEREBEL

              So you're supporting the article saying it wasn't Hamas by citing one local policeman who said it was Hamas, but a local chapter?

              Way to go, Woodward.

              •  "Hamas Affiliated" (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Egalitare

                Being an expert on the conflict, you presumably understand that there are "local cells" that have an even more tenuous relationship to Hamas than rogue Al Qaeda franchises have to whatever remains of the central network, right?

                 Presumably, you know that even the hack propaganda outlets like the Washington Institute were casting doubt on the strength of the suspects' affiliation with Hamas way back in June, citing an IDF spokesman who was "confident" that Hamas was behind the attacks even though he admitted that the IDF was unable to state "whether [the operatives] received a directive from Gaza or abroad."  More reputable sources with expertise on reporting from the West Bank were already detailing precisely how roguethese "operatives" are:

                According to Palestinian sources, Palestinian security forces had already reported to Israel that these two suspects had disappeared from Hebron within 24 hours of the abduction. That was the first clue in the investigation and the reason why Israel pointed an accusatory finger at the Hamas infrastructure in Hebron. But while Israel continues to accuse the Hamas movement and its leadership of being responsible for the abduction, Palestinian security forces attribute the abduction to the Qawasmeh clan of Hebron specifically. Though the clan is known for identifying with Hamas, it also has a well-earned reputation as troublemakers. Not only does it tend to ignore the movement’s leaders. It even acts counter to the policies being advocated by the movement
                .

                 The problem, of course, is that Israel publicly treats all Palestinian resistance as the functional equivalent of Hamas, even if it comes in the form of Salafi extremism, while it is clear that in private they draw very clear lines.  For example, the murder of the ISM activist Vittorio Arrigoni was not sanctioned by Hamas, and a military court in Gaza ultimately convicted rogue elements of murder.  Arrigoni's murder as a disaster for Hamas, and raised serious questions about their ability to provide securityin the Strip.  About a year later, Israel assassinated Zohair al-Qaisi, one of the men released in the Shalit prisoner exchange.  When the rogue salafis reacted by launching missiles, Israel used the attacks as a pretext to launch "Operation Returning Echo."  This was largely an excuse to test Iron Dome, and as Leor Sapir wrote in Commentary at the time, the test was "crucial" and the reason for the need for this crucial test in March of 2012 followed an announced upgrade to Iron Dome's operating system (and per Rafael, a correction to a radar failure).  By cooking the books and confronting low tech rocket attacks from salafis, Israel could then go on to claim, after Operation Returning Echo, that the success rate was now over 80 percent, hovering around 90 (a claim disputed by other Star Wars advocates).  Then came Operation Pillar of Defense, which was an opportunity to test Iron Dome that began with the assassination of a Hamas leader.  The crucial justification for this attack, however, was missile fire from non-Hamas groups in the Strip.  

                  Now, the missile fire in November of 2012 was not attributed to Hamas; as the JP piece from the time notes, the rocket attacks are directly attributed to "Gaza-based terrorist factions ," "the terrorist organizations in the Gaza Strip," "terrorist organizations in Gaza," "Gazan terrorists," and "Islamic Jihad members" or "Islamic Jihad terrorists."  The article is very careful not to tie the rocket launches to Hamas itself, while laying blame for the attacks on Hamas' doorstep.  

                 So what you are doing here is typical propaganda out of Israel, because you and the Israeli authorities know damn well how to delineate between Hamas' leadership, rogue "affiliates" and of course the salafis. You just hope to repeatedly use lies and obfuscation to prevent casual observers from learning the truth: Israel is engaged in a campaign against all Palestinians in the Gaza Strip that increasingly looks like genocide to outside observers, and state policy encourages not only the destruction of infrastructure but also the murder of children.  And when you are called out, you scream bloody murder about Hamas' genocidal but toothless rhetoric.  

                 At least your annoying and ignorant comments are pithy.

            •  This Tweet from Donnison in the Huff Timeline: (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              WinSmith
              @JonDonnison Gods chosen people killed enough yet?
              We're to trust this guy?

              Evolution IS Intelligent Design!

              by msirt on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 08:31:56 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Thank you (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              WinSmith

              That bit of key information is contained neither in the diary nor in the linked article, and I appreciate you adding it.

              I do think it would be reasonable to quibble, though, with whether "Hamas-affiliated" but not acting under its leadership, is that different from Hamas.  It doesn't seem different enough to me to justify the howls of conspiracy on this diary.  It sounds kind of like the Al Qaeda model where cells are sent out and operate independently, but are still affiliated, and not unreasonable to consider it a distinction without much of a difference.

               

              "Journalistic conventions make it hard for reporters to deal with a big, complicated lie." -- Michael Kinsley.

              by dcg2 on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 03:12:11 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  There's a huge distinction (0+ / 0-)

                Really there is.  You can read a number of sources discussing these matters in the comment above in response to WS.  Even the most hack ultranationalist outfits like the Washington Institute understand the distinction, and Israel observes the distinction when it is pragmatic to do so and overlooks it when it doesn't suit Israel's aims.  

          •  Fact is (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AoT, poco, shaharazade, Black Mare

            There is zero evidence linking it to Hamas.

        •  Hamas has always said they did not do it (8+ / 0-)

          Not that I expect you to believe them either but they are pretty quick to take 'credit' for the terror they commit.

        •  Al Jazeera confirms this: (13+ / 0-)
          The blame for their abduction immediately went to Hamas, which denied any involvement in the kidnapping. Israel has offered no concrete proof to implicate Hamas — instead identifying as its prime suspects a rogue faction with a history of defying Hamas’ leadership and sabotaging the group’s peace-building efforts. They were identified early on, meaning that Israel knew full well that neither Hamas nor its armed wing (al-Qassam Brigades) were behind the boys’ disappearance. Nonetheless, the IDF began a military campaign against them and de facto the Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza.
          http://america.aljazeera.com/...

          And information on those suspected of kidnapping the teenagers:

          But while Israel continues to accuse the Hamas movement and its leadership of being responsible for the abduction, Palestinian security forces attribute the abduction to the Qawasmeh clan of Hebron specifically. Though the clan is known for identifying with Hamas, it also has a well-earned reputation as troublemakers. Not only does it tend to ignore the movement’s leaders. It even acts counter to the policies being advocated by the movement.

          That is why officials in the Palestinian Authority (PA) were shocked by the timing of the three boys’ abduction, just two weeks after the establishment of a Palestinian unity government. After all, the very creation of this new coalition came with the assumption that the Hamas leadership had come to terms with reality and moderated their positions.

          http://www.al-monitor.com/...

          If trees gave off WIFi signals, we would probably plant so many trees, we would save the planet. Too bad they only produce the oxygen we breathe.

          by skohayes on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 04:32:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  READ HA'ARETZ & THE FORWARD (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Detroit Denizen

          Sick of Israel's cheerleaders ignoring what has been common knowledge for weeks.

          Read Juan Cole. No subscription needed. Only a day late.

          Every time a poor person dies a Republican gets his horns.

          by Black Mare on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 12:08:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  That is not the timeline that I've read and (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        davidincleveland

        is wildly inconsistent with broadly reported facts.

      •  Ok, here's the thing... (23+ / 0-)

        whatever news source you are following adheres to the Israeli govt. talking points, which vastly diverges from the news sources that some of the rest of us follow.

        Here's one sample of what I and others read, Five Israeli Talking Points on Gaza -- Debunked.

        The article includes links to a variety of sources that are worth reading, including from the Israel government. You could pay particular attention to a graph by The Jerusalem Fund that shows the number of rocket launches from Gaza into Israel from 2004 to May 2014. Almost none were fired from the fighting in November 2012 through May 2014. That contradicts your claim that rocket fire "had been going on consistently..." This article puts forth data that shows: "The single most effective way to bring projectile fire from Gaza to a halt is through a cease-fire agreement."

        Here is another important timeline of events following Netanyahu's exploitation of the murder of the three teenagers and the IDF began its aggression:

        During ten days of Operation Brother’s Keeper in the West Bank, Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011. It’s these Israeli provocations that precipitated the Hamas rocket fire to which Israel claims left it with no choice but a gruesome military operation.
        I could post more links to sources that support the above, but you might not be able to read through this one because it contrasts so greatly with what you've come to believe. So instead I'm going to curl up with a good book then go to sleep.
        •  The cease fire of Dec 2012 (14+ / 0-)

          negotiated by HRC was holding up pretty well.  In April, when the peace talks collapsed, in part due to Israel's unwillingness to meet prior agreements, the PA formed a unity government to take their pursuit of statehood to the next level, the UN.  Hamas claimed that Israel broke the terms of the agreement by the targeted asssasination of two Hamas leaders in Gaza in May.

          The US and EU actually supported the recognition of the Unity government, but Israel and our republican congress (and some democrats) thought it was still too close to Hamas.  Not de-baathifuied enough, but the real crisis to Israel was the prospect of a unified PA taking their case to the UN, where the outcome would be at best, uncertain, and at worst, very, very bad for the settlement and occupation project.

          In May, Israel began arresting hundreds of Hamas members, former legislators, MPs, intellectuals, and placed them in administrative detention.   Some of these cats might have been figures in the new unity government  Two Palestinian teenagers were killed by snipers during protests against these arrests.

          In June, Hamas formally resigned and handed over all governmental responsibilities to the PA, with US support.

          Israel's principal objectives with this operation are political, not military.   Israel seeks to defer, delay, derail PA initiatives for statehood in order to consolidate and expand the settlement and occupation project.  

          Use of military force to achieve purely political objectives rarely turns out well.

          •  Yes! to block the unity government (7+ / 0-)
            ...but the real crisis to Israel was the prospect of a unified PA taking their case to the UN, where the outcome would be at best, uncertain, and at worst, very, very bad for the settlement and occupation project.
            All the discussion about the teenagers' deaths and Hamas rockets serves to mask the driving motivation of Netanyahu et al.

            Thanks for your comment.

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