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  •  Not all creationists are tea baggers (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IndyDemGirl, rduran

    or right wingers.....  Just like all republicans are not creationists....  Evolution vs Creation is not a left or right issue... Seriously....  There are many liberals who believe in Creationism.  They do not dismiss all of evolution but have theories on the earth's age.   Many do not believe in evolution period.   I am one who has as many questions for Darwin as Evolutionists have for the Pope.

    The right is about as wrong as it gets and please help veterans ...Thanks ! United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 12:21:15 PM PDT

    •  Your questions have been answered. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aunt Pat, Santa Susanna Kid

      Start with Richard Dawkins, then Leonard Susskind, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris.

      Heck, start with the new series, Cosmos.

      What is so unnerving about the candidacy of Sarah Palin is the degree to which she represents—and her supporters celebrate—the joyful marriage of confidence and ignorance. SAM HARRIS

      by Cpqemp on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 01:19:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  what's an "Evolutionist" . . . ? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ahianne, rodentrancher, rduran

      Is it anything like a "Gravityist" or a "Heliocentrist"?

      Evolution is a fact. An observed fact. And so is the age of the earth and the universe. Questioning any of that is just as dipshit idiotic as questioning the existence of gravity. No matter what side of the political spectrum one is on.

      In the end, reality always wins.

      by Lenny Flank on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 02:28:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  ps--evolution is science (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      207wickedgood, rduran

      Evolution is not religion.  Science is not religion, and religion is not science. And despite the yammerings of ideologues on both sides, evolution doesn't have stuff-all to do with religion, any more than gravity does.

      So "evolutionists" (whatever the heck THAT means) don't have any questions for the Pope.  The Pope doesn't have jackshit to do with evolution, any more than the Commissioner of Baseball does.

      In the end, reality always wins.

      by Lenny Flank on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 02:55:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I do not have enough faith to believe in all of (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rduran

        evolution... One question I have never heard answered was if evolution IS science and the total evolving process of ape to man....Why do we still have apes?  New born apea nad apes that procreate.. Should not a newborn ape have evolved somewhat?  What is science to some is theory and what is theory for some is science and I do not believe in organized religion either.

        The right is about as wrong as it gets and please help veterans ...Thanks ! United Veterans of America

        by Vetwife on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 03:54:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I do not even try to pretend I am as smart (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rduran

          as these folks...I just weigh out belief and science and don't broadstroke.

          http://www.creationists.org/...

          The right is about as wrong as it gets and please help veterans ...Thanks ! United Veterans of America

          by Vetwife on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 03:59:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  oh, for fucksakes . . . . . . . . (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gsenski, rduran

            Liars with fake degrees, and you swallow their bullshit because you're too uninformed to tell shit from shinola. That is indeed the very basis of creation "science".

            Any chance that you also think science is a corporate plot and vaccines are killing us . . . . ?

            (sigh)

            Teh stoopid, it burns.

            In the end, reality always wins.

            by Lenny Flank on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 04:04:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Take another look: those degrees, (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Vetwife, rduran

              sad to say, are real.  Most of them are irrelevant, but that’s a different matter.  And while they appear to be crackpots as far as this subject is concerned, I see no indication that they’re lying: their crackpottery appears to be genuine.

          •  ps--you may want to have a look here: (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gsenski, 207wickedgood

            http://scc.losrios.edu/...

            where I shred all of the creationist bullshit, in detail, for free.  Enjoy. And stop being such a gullible sap.

            In the end, reality always wins.

            by Lenny Flank on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 04:05:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  argh, that mirror doesn't have the links (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Emmy, 207wickedgood

              This one does.

              Oh, and about those "smart guys with degrees" . . .

              http://www.huecotanks.com/...

              IS THERE A REAL DOCTOR IN THE HOUSE?

              by Lenny Flank

              Next time you see a creation "scientist", ask him where he got his degree.

               --"Dr" Richard Bliss, who develops curriculum materials for the Institute for Creation Research, has a doctorate in education from the University of Sarisota in Florida, an unaccredited diploma mill that is located in a hotel.

              --"Dr" Kelly Segraves, a co-founder of the Creation Science Research Center, claims to have an MA and DSc degree. The doctorate is supposed to be an honorary degree from "Christian University", but no such place exists in the United States. Segraves dropped the "Dr" from his name in 1981. His Masters is supposed to come from "Sequoia University", but this doesn't exist either. There is a Sequoia College in California, but it has no record of a student named Segraves.

              --"Dr" Harold Slusher, a co-founder of the Creation Research Society, claims to have an earned PhD from Columbia Pacific University and an honorary DSc from Indiana Christian University. Indiana Christian is a Bible college, while Columbia Pacific is an unaccredited diploma mill.

              --"Dr" Clifford Burdick of the Creation Research Society got his doctorate from the University of Physical Sciences in Arizona, which consists of a post office box at an unaccredited institute in Phoenix.

              --"Dr" Carl Baugh, of the Creation Evidences Museum near Glen Rose, Texas, has a PhD in anthropology from the College of Advanced Education, an unaccredited Bible college on the grounds of the Sherwood Park Baptist Church. He has another PhD from the California Graduate School of Theology, an unaccredited college in California.

              There is NO scientist anywhere in the world with a legitimate degree in biology who accepts creationism and rejects evolution.  None.  Not a one.  Zip.  Zero.  Zilch.

              I never thought I'd see the day when anyone at DKos would actually be stoopid enough to defend creationist dumbfuckery.  It saddens me immensely.  

              In the end, reality always wins.

              by Lenny Flank on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 04:10:15 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Well the insults sure convinced me !!! (0+ / 0-)

              Changed my mind completely.

                I am active in Climate change and not a denier.. I am pro vaccine...... I think it is wrong to not vaccinate and I believe in pro choice....

              I just don't buy that Boom one day all the stars and planets fell into place.   I really don't care how old the earth is but I do believe it is a lot more than a million years old but it doesn't matter because I have the right to believe my way and you have the right to believe your way....A hundred years from now your science and another scientist will be totally opposite so it is what it is on the monkey science with me and my beliefs...I am not stupid... I am just a believer in a higher power and I don'tfault  people who believe in evolution  without question but if you think I am stupid then you are wrong... because not only do I question much science but I question religion as well and  Like I care what you think of me.. i do believe most people who do throw insults at people who do not accept evolution are ususally rude..  Would you care that much if I said I don't believe in some some history as recorded?  I doubt it.  I think people should not apologize for what they choose to accept as science or theory or science and bullshit or certain aspects of all of the above.  I think it scares people just as much as it scares the religious zealots about certain challenges of faith.....They are not stupid... They choose to believe in intelligent design  and they have that right.

              The right is about as wrong as it gets and please help veterans ...Thanks ! United Veterans of America

              by Vetwife on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 06:49:57 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I am not trying to convince you (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gsenski

                I am mocking and laughing at you. As I do to all creationists.  It's all they deserve.

                I think people should not apologize for what they choose to accept as science
                Science is not a matter of choice. You don't get to choose if the Earth is round. You don't get to choose if the boiling point of water is 212F. And you don't get to choose if evolution happens. Science is not a democracy. Your vote doesn't mean shit.

                And I do not think people should apologize for mocking anti-science crackpots who don't know shit from shinola.

                Teh stoopid, it burns. . . .

                In the end, reality always wins.

                by Lenny Flank on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 07:33:28 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Well .....proving it to some is the problem isn't (0+ / 0-)

                  it?   It is like proving the bible?   You can see boiling water.
                  You can see the earth is round from space......but proving something that is interpreted by mere  mortals  that happened millions of years ago is the problem isn't it from people who believe in a God.  A supernatural being... There is the problem . Did it ever occur to the people who do not believe in Creationism are considered stupid by the people who do?

                  Proving evolution is science is a big problem...to people who believe in intelligent design.   while people have to spend a lot of time looking under every rock and leaf to prove there is no God and I just evolved... all I have to do is believe there is and not try to prove it.....Love cannot be seen but felt.. It cannot be measured but it is real.  I do not have a tail or swing from a tree and I don't believe my ancestors did either... Yours may have..but I doubt it.  

                  The right is about as wrong as it gets and please help veterans ...Thanks ! United Veterans of America

                  by Vetwife on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 08:25:50 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Only one of the people listed (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rodentrancher, ybruti

            on that page, the molecular biologist, works in a truly relevant field, and he’s outnumbered by literally hundreds.  Even very intelligent people can be badly mistaken, especially outside their fields of expertise, and their intelligence can end up being used to construct ingenious defenses that may be superficially quite convincing.  Not to put too fine a point on it, all of them are crackpots as far as this subject is concerned.  

            If you really want to read up a bit, you might start at the TalkOrigins Archive. I’d begin with the main FAQ, the pages Evolution is a Fact and a Theory, Introduction to Evolutionary Biology, and Five Major Misconceptions about Evolution .

        •  evolution requires no more faith than gravity does (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rodentrancher, 207wickedgood, rduran

          *facepalm*  All of the creationist arguments, and you have to pick the dumbest one . . . . . . .

          In my 30 years of creationist-fighting, I have never yet met anyone anywhere who both rejected evolution AND UNDERSTOOD IT.

          You just confirmed that.

          PS--to answer your question, the reason we still have apes even though humans evolved from them is precisely the same reason we still have grandmothers even though we descended from them.  There is no requirement that ancestors die once descendants appear.

          And evolution works in POPULATIONS, not species.

          In the end, reality always wins.

          by Lenny Flank on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 04:00:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It requires several orders of magnitude more faith (0+ / 0-)

            Of course this is the difference between millimeters and micrometers. ;)

          •  Assuming we're not being pedantic (0+ / 0-)

            about terms ("evolution is the change of allele frequencies over time"), then while you've may have never met them personally surely you've heard of Michael Behe and Charles Thaxton.

            Understanding--even to a professional degree--is no guarantee you can't be consistently, bone-headedly wrong.  Does anyone argue that Fred Hoyle lacks the chops to comprehend modern cosmology?  Even Ken Ham by now has at least an undergraduate grasp of evolutionary biology, if for no other reason than he's been schooled by enough critics for so long that he's actually addressing their arguments these days.

          •  Not grandmothers. (0+ / 0-)

            Cousins maybe. Chimps and humans have a common ancestor. That common ancestor looked more like a chimp than a human. Whether that was because humans changed more or because we are doing the judging, I'm not certain.

        •  apes HAVE evolved (6+ / 0-)

          current day apes are as different from our common ancestors as we are. That is, we are not descended from what we now call apes. We are descended from a type of being that branched off. Humans are only one limb of that tree.

          Dear NSA: I am only joking.

          by Shahryar on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 06:34:14 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Long answer short (0+ / 0-)

          Five to ten million years ago, the group of our common ancestors with chimps probably split up and moved away from each other: far enough away that reproduction between the split tribes was no longer possible.  These tribes experienced very different ecological pressures, which in turn acted on random mutations differently in ways that caused some to spread like wild fire, others to be weeded out ruthlessly, and everything in between.  

          Bottom line, evolution isn't locked to a single track within an population.  It depends on chance acting on our genes and the environment culling or stimulating their spread from one generation to the next.

        •  Evolution splits. (0+ / 0-)

          Evolution generally proceeds by splitting populations. (There are exceptions.) Once there was a population of apes. Then some apes found certain traits more beneficial and others found other traits more beneficial. After some time, they evolved until the two populations could not interbreed. At that point, they were different species.

          Trying to understand evolution simply in terms of human evolution is probably a losing cause.

    •  I'll defer to Francis Collins (0+ / 0-)

      I thought that the Christian God was so omnipotent that he could do anything?  Including use evolution to create the world as we know it today.  

      Well, that's what this Christian says.

      The evidence supporting the idea that all living things are descended from a common ancestor is truly overwhelming.
      Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/...

      "states like VT and ID are not 'real america'" -icemilkcoffee

      by Utahrd on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 04:48:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Please, by all means, ask (0+ / 0-)

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