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View Diary: US And EU Moving Into Alignment To Tighten Screws On Russia (153 comments)

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  •  was going to ask about relationship between (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Richard Lyon, IndieGuy, duhban, elwior, koNko

    Der Spiegel und Frau Merkel, aber Ich sehe:

    From my limited understanding of the German media scene, Der Spiegel is a neoliberal center right production. That is likely to align it with business interests and Merkel's party. Hopefully some of the German readers here can comment on that more fully.
    Compared to other media, is Der Spiegel a good proxy for how the public is feeling, or how the government is feeling (or both or neither)?

    Hard to assess the datapoint.

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    —Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 02:06:11 PM PDT

    •  I'm hoping that some of our German friends (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      polecat, elwior, k9disc

      will be able to expand on this.

      •  I can't expand on this, but if (5+ / 0-)

        "Der Spiegel" has become a neo-liberal center right magazine, then that has been a development which occurred during the last 10 to 15 years.

        "Der Spiegel" used to be a clear center left magazine before internet times and before Neo-Liberalism has entered the German political landscape. I learned about neo-liberalism through the US. I think that anything to do with Libertarianism (right-wing or left-wing) was not in the playbooks in the German political landscape til the mid to late eighties. Der Spiegel didn't align with the conservative party at all and was never shy to speak up and criticize conservative politicians.

        What happened during and after the eighties I have a huge gap, because I didn't read "Der Spiegel" from the eighties to the late nineties. If at all that must have started in the mid nineties and is clearly I think today a development that is the consequence of the internet and online Spiegel web-site and its cooperation with the NYT. Still today it has guest writers from the very left, among others the son of the original, very excellent founder, Rudolf Augstein. His son I think writes just opinion pieces for Der Spiegel today. And clearly they have nowadays other opinion writers from the conservative and center right spectrum. That didn't use to be that way.

        Our liberal party, the FDP, used to be just that, a tiny liberal party, but not a libertarian one. I don't know when that changed. As everything that happens in the US happens in Germany with around a ten year delay (at least that's what they said in the seventies), the influence came from the US. As a lot of other underground influences, spreading over the net and networks of religious groups and right-wing networks, camouflaged as neo-libertarian.

        I hope there are other German readers here who can comment from Germany, who know much better. But I rather doubt that people in Germany think about "Der Spiegel" as a center-right magazine.

        I also don't think that "Der Spiegel" needs to align with Merkel's party or with business interests.

        If they do that's (and I see that they are often today, mostly, but not always) then that's a sign that the "old guard" is gone and taken over by some "young super-duper-know-everything-better kind of guys". That may be partly so, sorry, but there is still enough reporting that doesn't comply with that assessment.

        The whole thing angers me. Der Spiegel is still pretty precise and still engages in investigative reporting.

        Merkel is aligning to the US and EU with regards to the Ukraine since the MH17 was shot down. Before that her hesitations were more obvious. The Social Democrats with Sec. of State Steinmeier does what he thinks he has to do, play the "German Dackel".

        For a member of the conservative party, CDU, Merkel is rather a moderate conservative and as we govern in a "Great Coalition" five cabinet positions have been given to the Social Democrats, SPD.
        Apparently they don't have a leading political figure which would have chances to compete against Merkel.

        We will see, it's all in the open. The Ukraine developments are a huge tragedy and everything seems to be in flux.

        We know a hell of a lot, but we understand very little. Manfred Max-Neef

        by mimi on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 07:49:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Frank-Walter Steinmeier is pretty popular. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mimi, polecat

          This June Statista poll, which asked whether various politicians should play a more important rôle in the future, he come third at 68% saying yes, behind Merkel (77%) and Joachim Gauck (74%).  He’s followed by two CDU politicians, Wolfgang Schäuble and Ursula von der Leyen, before we get to Sigmar Gabriel (55%), the current chairman of the SPD, and Hannelore Kraft (53%), head of the SPD in Nordrhein-Westfalen.  No one else in the poll is over 50%.  Purely on the basis of popularity Steinmeier would be the obvious choice, but I really don’t see much likelihood of any change until at least 2017.

          And I agree with you about Der Spiegel, especially about their investigative reporting.

        •  I really, really disagree, Mimi. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mimi, polecat

          You have been away from Germany for a long time, though you have been working in the news business. However, I live here and read Der Spiegel in its cultural context, and have been in recent contact with the chief editor of the English Spiegel Online. All I would say is what I already said, and that is that it has moved to the right, but is still not even close to center-right, and certainly not neo-liberal. Some of the guest columnists are conservative. For example, one regular writer is very anti-solar power and writes a lot of tripe and cherry-picked facts on that topic which Der Spiegel also publishes, but that does not mean that the magazine's politics are that way. Why the publication gives that guy a platform at all, I don't know, but it's not my call. More power to them for publishing diverse opinions.

          A German scientist friend of mine also told me a while back their science section is only a shadow of what it once was, as the (now former) managing editor hired a friend (or friends - not sure of the internal details) to write for that department. That managing editor was pretty much unceremoniously dumped last year, so it really depends on who is in charge. I won't go into this further, however, because that is getting beyond the scope of what I can say with any confidence, and I am not a fan of speculation.

          Other parts of your assessment are spot on, so please don't take my disagreement as criticism.

          „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

          by translatorpro on Tue Jul 29, 2014 at 12:47:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I do NOT disagree with you at all ... :) (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            translatorpro

            and quite obviously you have so much detailed insider knowledge, are in Germany, and just because I worked for seven years in the news business (at a very low level position not involving production or research), doesn't mean I had to read "Der Spiegel" or was involved in following up closely what happened in Germany. I am just an ordinary German who happens to live in DC for a quite a  while and had to "survive" here (which is not as much fun as you might think, politically or otherwise).

            Basically I was once very astonished when "famous" writers here on daily kos mentioned in an aside note that "Der Spiegel" is well known for its neo-liberalism. I was stunned, but didn't say anything, because, you know, I am just not capable to come up with well formulated arguments and facts that would support my own judgments.

            And then, living and reading here long enough, you feel inhibited enough to not talk about what you think.
            Luckily the "thoughts are still free", but the online posted words are surely not anymore, despite the fact that so many people want to convince you they are.  

            To me "Der Spiegel" has developed in a  huge "stew", in which you continuously find "excellent pieces" of meat and a lot of spicy, hot soup. :)

            I never thought of it as center-right. I don't read it enough to know by heart the conservative columnists. The last official Spiegel Opinion (mentioned in the diary) piece has surprised me a little. But then, I don't know enough of all the details to judge it either.

            I often rely on my guts and visuals of which I have seen so many that I turned very suspicious of lots of them. But usually I find something that "tells me something" that I find reveals more truths than many an online written words and videos. All in al I am not following the tune of the Spiegel Opinion mentioned in this diary... yet.

            We know a hell of a lot, but we understand very little. Manfred Max-Neef

            by mimi on Tue Jul 29, 2014 at 08:56:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  It is like Time (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Richard Lyon, polecat

      When Time actually did a competent job of researching and reporting.

      In other words, it is a mainstream center-right newsweekly with reasonably dependable feature articles and a centrist editorial outlook.

      German public opinion is pretty diverse, but I would say, in the main, slightly to the Left of Spiegel.

      That said, it's a well-funded operation so sometimes has depth of reporting dailies lack, for example, they have supported the most-definitely leftist reporting of Jacob Appelbuam and Laura Poitras on the NSA/Snowden story, including publication of facts a bit embarrassing to "Mommy", but I think that's because it is newsworthy and bound to drive circulation.

      •  It was modelled on "Time" magazine (0+ / 0-)

        originally. That is a well-known fact here. And I'm glad you modified that "center-right" label later. That is in no way, shape or form accurate.

        „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

        by translatorpro on Tue Jul 29, 2014 at 12:49:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I was a regular Time reader way back in the 60s. (0+ / 0-)

        It was to the right of my views then, but it did have some intelligent articles. The US media in whatever format long ago became more knee jerk propaganda than anything else. I can follow the British media because it in in English and The Guardian at least seems to keep real journalism alive. I am always curious to know if things have gotten this bad in other countries.  

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