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View Diary: 6000 Years of Slaughter: A Very Controversial Animated History of the Middle East (to music!) (44 comments)

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  •  It is not rooted in historic conflict over control (2+ / 0-)
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    mumtaznepal, FarWestGirl

    of the Holy Land? Whose Holy Land?

    "It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness." (Adlai Stevenson in praise of Eleanor Roosevelt) (Glowing Candle Avatar Adopted in 1986)

    by murphthesurf3 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 07:09:10 PM PDT

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    •  Definitely not rooted in conflict over that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Arun

      At least not for the past 175 or so years. A myth was created later that it was about that, but that is definitely not what led to the ongoing conflict since the 19th century.

      Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

      by moviemeister76 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 09:30:55 PM PDT

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      •  Don't you think... (3+ / 0-)

        ...the myth has something to do with not being able to resolve the conflict?

        •  Perhaps in a way (0+ / 0-)

          The myth was created to justify the conflict.

          Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

          by moviemeister76 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 at 08:42:10 AM PDT

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      •  Certainly the "myth" is widely embraced by both (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FarWestGirl, moviemeister76

        the Islamic and Jewish sides....

        "It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness." (Adlai Stevenson in praise of Eleanor Roosevelt) (Glowing Candle Avatar Adopted in 1986)

        by murphthesurf3 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 at 10:23:26 PM PDT

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        •  I'm not sure about the Islamic side (0+ / 0-)

          At least as far as Palestinians go. Most Palestinians I've read about only talk about what happened in the 19th and 20th centuries for why the land is theirs.

          Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

          by moviemeister76 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 at 03:59:14 AM PDT

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          •  This is what I know....a look at Hamas' Charter (0+ / 0-)

            Hamas was founded as a paramilitary wing of the Muslim Brotherhood, with roots, ideology and mission that are explicitly linked to Islam. For Hamas, Islam has been not only a religion which guides its organizational aims, but also a source of law (sharia) to be introduced in the future Palestinian state.

            Adopted on 18 August 1988, Hamas’ Charter, or The Convenant, is a comprehensive manifesto comprising thirty six separate articles, all of which promote key Hamas’ objective. Most of the articles commit Hamas to two most important aims: to destroy the Jewish oppressive state, and to follow Allah’s words by creating a Islamic state from the Mediterranean to Jordan river.

            In support of your position, in 2010 Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons." A number of significant figures in Hamas have stated that the organization has moved away from their charter since they decided to seek a political path.

            But other Hamas leaders, including Ismail Haniyah and Khaled Meshaal have also stated repeatedly that "Palestine – from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea, from its north to its south – is our land, our right, and our homeland, the inheritance of Allah the merciful and beneficient. There will be no relinquishing or forsaking even an inch or small part of it."

            With the increasing influence of Islamic fundamentalism and Jihadism, and most recently the successes of ISIS the religious core of groups like Hamas have been renewed and identify the core of its philosophy.

            Let's look at the charter- a document that was rarely cited prior to 2002 but has reemerged as the voice of Hamas.

            The Preamble to the Charter states: ″Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it″. That' pretty clear to me.

            Article by article

                Article 1 describes Hamas as an Islamic Resistance Movement rooted in the faithful ideology of  Islam.

                Article 2 of Hamas' Charter defines Hamas as a "universal movement" and "one of the branches of the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine"

                Article 3 the Movement consists of "Muslims who have given their allegiance to Allah" and the obligations of their submission to the Will of Allah.

                Article 5 Demonstrates and outlines its Salafist roots and connections to the Muslim brotherhood.

                Article 6 states that Hamas is uniquely Palestinian, and "strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine, for under the wing of Islam followers of all religions can coexist in security and safety where their lives, possessions and rights are concerned." Thus statements made recently that Jews and Christians are welcomed by Palestinians but NOT the state of Israel.

                Article 7 describes Hamas as "one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders" and links the movement to the followers of the religious and nationalist hero Izz ad-Din al-Qassam.

                Article 8 reiterates the Muslim Brotherhood's slogan of "Allah is its goal, the Prophet is the model, the Qur'an its constitution, jihad its path, and death for the sake of Allah its most sublime belief."

                Article 9 adapts Muslim Brotherhood's vision to connect the Palestinian crisis with the Islamic solution and advocates "fighting against the false, defeating it and vanquishing it so that justice could prevail".

                Article 11 proclaims that Palestine is sacred (waqf) for all Muslims for all time, and it cannot be relinquished by anyone since it is the sublime gift of Allah.

                Article 12 affirms that "Nationalism, from the point of view of the Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed".

                Article 13 declares that there is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer.

                Article 14 The liberation of Palestine is the personal duty of every Palestinian.

                Article 15 "From the day that enemies usurp any part of Muslim land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Muslim". It states the history of crusades into Muslim lands and says the "Palestinian problem is at its foundation a religious problem".

                Article 20 Calls for action "by the people as a single body" against "a vicious enemy which acts in a way similar to Nazism, making no differentiation between man and woman, between children and old people".

                Article 22 makes sweeping claims about Jewish influence and power as a global presence endangering freedom throughout the world but especially in the Middle East.

                Article 28 contains an indictment of the conspiracy by Israel, Judaism and the Jews against Islam and the requirement that it be opposed..

                Article 31 describes Hamas as "a humanistic movement", which "takes care of human rights and is guided by Islamic tolerance when dealing with the followers of other religions". "Under the wing of Islam", it is possible for Islam, Christianity and Judaism "to coexist in peace and quiet with each other".

                Article 32 Hamas condemns those who assist Israel as co-plotters and “imperialistic powers”.

            FYI. Here is an English Translation of the Covenant. http://avalon.law.yale.edu/...

            "It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness." (Adlai Stevenson in praise of Eleanor Roosevelt) (Glowing Candle Avatar Adopted in 1986)

            by murphthesurf3 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 at 06:02:22 AM PDT

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            •  That's nonsense (0+ / 0-)

              Of course some far right movement would create a myth to support their violence. But they are a tiny faction of Palestinians. Saying that Hamas represents the majority of Palestinians is like saying the far right government in Israel represents most Israelis. Or that the Tea Party faction of the US represents most Americans. None of which is true. It only seems that way to those on the outside because the media likes to focus on the extremes.

              Most Palestinians, when they actually discuss how they view their own history and why they deserve that land, discuss al-Nakba. On the other hand, the Israeli national myth for why it was founded is rooted in both genocide and the homecoming of Jews to the Holy Land. There has been a bit of a shift since the 90s, though, at least in the academic world in Israel. It doesn't seem to have filtered out to the rest of the public, though.

              Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

              by moviemeister76 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 at 06:24:04 AM PDT

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              •  Hamas IS the government of Gaza and that is (0+ / 0-)

                the topic.

                Hamas has the missiles, the means to build tunnels, the will to act and a plan to destabilize any effort to create a so-called peace.

                BTW I would not trust the Tea Party with missiles either.

                I am sure that you are correct about most Palestinians but since when did that make any difference, there or here (majorities do not rule...look at our Congress and how our twice elected President is treated).

                Both Zionism and Islamism have gained a lot of ground in the last 10 years. There was a time when reformers, both religious and secular, were advancing a peaceful two state paradigm based on the principles you allude to. Not now.

                "It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness." (Adlai Stevenson in praise of Eleanor Roosevelt) (Glowing Candle Avatar Adopted in 1986)

                by murphthesurf3 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 at 10:03:33 AM PDT

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