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View Diary: Obama And Putin Raise Tensions Over Missile Deployment (37 comments)

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  •  It would be interesting to know (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    limpidglass, fran1, Johnny Q

    where Ukraine got the missiles from.

    •  Yeap! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Richard Lyon, Johnny Q

      Wonder if we ever will be told?

      Read the European view at the European Tribune

      by fran1 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 at 10:26:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  the US claimed to know for sure (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fran1, TJ, snoopydawg, aliasalias, Johnny Q

      that the Russians were giving the anti-Kiev separatists anti-aircraft missiles. Even though they never produced a shred of conclusive proof.

      Now the Kiev regime is using far heavier ordinance, which should be far easier to track. But somehow I think the US will shrug its shoulders and insist it has no clue where these ballistic missiles are coming from.

      "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

      by limpidglass on Tue Jul 29, 2014 at 10:33:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well who cares? The Ukrainian govt has a right (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        to defend the country against rebels and separatists.  What, you're concnered that "it's just not fair" that Ukraine might have more powerful missiles than the rebels do?  LOL

        Lincoln had a real navy while Jeff Davis had a handful of ships here and there.  I wonder if progressives of the day were outraged that Lincoln used his more powerful navy to help put down a rebellion, because it "just wasn't fair" that Lincoln had more powerful weapons at his disposal.  /smh

      •  far heavier? (0+ / 0-)

        I'm not sure that you understand what sort of weapon was apparently used to down MH17. This wasn't the typical manpad variety which has had governments concerned for years about proliferation and the threat that would deal to aviation. This was a very heavy system.

        But i'm wasting my time, surely. You're demanding conclusive proofs but all we'll likely get here are a bunch of anonymous know-it-alls making dubious assertions.

        All things in the sky are pure to those who have no telescopes. – Charles Fort

        by subtropolis on Tue Jul 29, 2014 at 07:39:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  These are old Soviet missiles. SS-21. Ukraine (0+ / 0-)

      has quite a few of them.

    •  The Ukraine kept a variety (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Richard Lyon, TJ, FG, limpidglass

      Of Scud A, Scud B and Frog missiles.

      In Soviet doctrine, short range and mid range ballistic missiles, replaced a Strategic Bombing force, and until the advent of GPS and Laser guided munitions, were more accurate and caused less collateral damage than a saturation bombing raid by B52's.

      In a Soviet/NATO conventional war, before it turned nuclear, both sides intended to use short and medium range ballistic missiles, in saturation volley against targets like command and control, airbases, collection points, supply and maneuver bottlenecks, like the Fulda Gap.

      These days, only Russia possesses the inventory to use Conventional Scuds and Frogs as intended, ( the US has their own massive stockpiles of their own models),

      For other users, their inventories are so small, and targets so limited, than they are only useful as a terror weapon against civilians.

      As far as I can tell, the R-500 does not violate the Treaty, but as a ramjet, supersonic cruise missile, with countermeasures and evasion abilities, and multiple targeting options, and precise targeting, designed expressly to hit US Anti Ballistic Missile systems and sites, their testing and deployment will worry the US Military.

      Sadly, continued testing and deployment of the Iskander system is the direct counter response to the US deployment of ABM systems on Russia's border and Bush's tearing up of the ABM Treaty with Russia.

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