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View Diary: As A Black Liberal Who Supports Israel (110 comments)

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  •  so smarmy and pompous (5+ / 0-)

    "But please, before you deign to "educate" the rest of Kossacks about Israel-Palestine, try to learn a bit more yourself and to diversify your sources. Your knowledge of the conflict seems to be still in the opening weeks of a 101 course."

    Having spent time in Israel, I'm thinking he might have at least equal knowledge to you.  Besides that, he wasn't trying to educate anyone.  Who has ever changed another's mind on a political issue based on message board chatter?

    •  MsShona is she. And no, she doesn't have equal (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      poco, JoanMar

      knowledge.

      Please see above.

      •  Actually... (5+ / 0-)

        I have a different perspective. This is NOT the same as saying that I don't have equal knowledge.

        As far as living in a place. My father's family is in Jamaica. The well known joke/fact/whatever is that we are more knowledgeable than they are in regards to what is going on there -- politically, economically, even with the local news! Could be the same...could be different. Ultimately it doesn't matter. One doesn't need to live in a place to have a connection to it.

        •  that's fine (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MsShona

          But the point is that it's smarmy and awful to say you don't have equal knowledge because you disagree.  And sorry for the he/she mixup.

          •  There was no intent to be smarmy. It's the content (9+ / 0-)

            MsShona in the diary's content, was echoing (gently and sweetly, as much as it is possible) the well-known, to the point of nausea, official Israeli propaganda talking points.

            I'm sorry, but over the years I have developed a severe allergy to those. And yes, the diary did indicate that if people only knew those talking points, they'd stop criticizing Israel so much. In fact, nearly everyone active on I-P circles here, from either side, is well aware of them.

            I was responding to that, again in the most respectful way I could. No intent to be smarmy and my apologies if I hurt anyone.

        •  This is unfortunately (8+ / 0-)

          a regular conceit. Hiding behind citizenship as a way of asserting one's superior knowledge is thin gruel. I think there is a unique perspective to be offered by Israeli and Palestinian natives and/or citizens, and we should welcome them. But just as we wouldn't necessarily afford superior weight to a pro-Israel poster who is every bit as Israeli as Assaf, it's equally silly to expect that of someone more critical of Israel.

          Unapologetic Obama supporter.

          by Red Sox on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 12:47:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I explained my response above. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            poco, CenPhx

            I won't repeat it here.

          •  Look.. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MsShona, Zornorph, TLS66, buffan

            I wish someone with the temperament of Mrs. Meir was in charge as well, but just like some Pro I people (like me) blame the Gazans for electing Hamas, Israelis can also be blamed for electing Bibi.

            Sidenote--Ms. Livni actually won the 2009 election but had ostracized so many that she couldn't get a coalition, and so now we have Bibi.

            But even leftist politicians like Golda don't simply let things go.  Do you think, Assaf, that she just should have said "no biggie" to Munich in 1972?  

            I'm not going to give you a history lesson because it's not going to change your mind but we can't go back to 1948.  It stinks that the Palestine people (mainly the countries around) weren't happy with the division.  It's too bad that Egypt blocked the Tiran straits leading to 1967 butt-whooping.  You'll not the Jordan joined the war against the request of Israel and if they didn't they'd have half of Jerusalem and there may be a State by now.  And there are other examples.

            But what we're talking about it now.  Should Israel behave a little differently?  Very possibly.  But if Hamas issued a press conference, lead by Mr. Meshall, that said "we are done.  we are sorry.  Israel has a right to exist.  We are going to change our charter and show you where the tunnels are.  We'll help Abu Mazen build a P State" then not one more child would die.  Syria would create peace shortly after this because there would be no other countries without it in the region.  Iran wouldn't have as much help in the region.  And things would be safer.

            My educated opinion only, and not propaganda.

            Thanks for not being smarmy and I apologize for saying that but yes, stop criticizing Israel so much.

            •  I think you meant to reply to Assaf, not me. But (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MsShona

              I have to take issue with your last sentence. Criticism of any country's government is not only imperative, it's a right we're lucky to have. People die for that right, and without it, you get despots and tyrants in public office.

              Unapologetic Obama supporter.

              by Red Sox on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 01:06:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I really wish (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Red Sox, MsShona, A DC Wonk

              either Ms. Livni or Mr. Herzog was in charge.  I was hoping Bibi could be like "Nixon going to China", but no.

              "Valerie, why am I getting all these emails calling me a classless boor?"

              by TLS66 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 at 03:29:07 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  You know what? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MsShona

              At some point folks need to get off ridiculously equating Bibi/Likud with Hamas.  I know it feels all progressivy and what not but it's beyond stupid.  Hamas is in a whole other league of crazy.  The sell your wives and daughters into slavery and sell their organs when they run down league of crazy.

            •  Or, the contrapositive (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jmiles1978

              One way to look at it:

              But if Hamas issued a press conference, lead by Mr. Meshall, that said "we are done.  we are sorry.  Israel has a right to exist.  We are going to change our charter and show you where the tunnels are.  We'll help Abu Mazen build a P State" then not one more child would die.  

              The other way to look at it:

              If Hamas unilaterally laid down their arms, today's war would be over.  If all of Israel laid down their arms, millions of Israeli's wold be unilaterally massacred.

              Certainly that does not absolve anyone of what's going on today -- but, imho, it adds some important context of what's going today.

              I trust Bibi like I trust Cheney.  But I trust Hamas like I trust Al Qaeda.

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