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View Diary: Israel redeploys as it announces 7 hour Monday cease-fire (80 comments)

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  •  So if they evacuate on their own... (5+ / 0-)

    ...Israel and the US can pretend like it really isn't ethnic cleansing. Convenient.

    •  And there you have it (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Victor Ward, debedb

      Gazans have to stay under the threat of fire because some guy half way across the world has a weird notion that rescuing refugees is facilitating ethnic cleansing.

      Israel has a track record of doing nothing when hundreds of thousands of Gazans attempt reentry.

      •  "Rescuing refugees." (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        protectspice, cybrestrike

        Nice name for it. It makes it all sound so antiseptic, so sterile, so... humanitarian. Frank Luntz would approve.

        •  Well, you can continue calling it "genocide." (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          It's not like your side hasn't debased that term enough for one month.

          •  Well, it is genocide. (3+ / 0-)

            "Your side" as you refer to it, is debasing only themselves.

          •  Small but telling point of reference. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cybrestrike, Pilsner
          •  Once again: (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cybrestrike, IndieGuy, protectspice

            Excerpt from the Convention on the Prevention and
            Punishment of Genocide (For full text click here)
            "Article II:  In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

            (a) Killing members of the group;

            (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

            (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

            (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

            (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.


            •  Once again, that definition (0+ / 0-)

              bears no resemblance to the conflict in the occupied territories.

              •  rrduran - It's undeniable that the Israelis are (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                checking off a through c.
                  And Israeli leaders and opinion makers are constantly obsessing about Palestinians (and Berbers and Ethiopians) having too many kids and worrying about what to do about it.

                 More than 8400 Palestinians have been killed by Israel since 2000. Although there have been 1700 Israelis killed in the early part of the century, since 2008 the number of Israelis killed by Palestinians either in war or terror incidents has been in double digits.
                  The Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza is 4.1 million.
                   The population of Bosnia-Herzogevina prior to the mid-1990s war was 4.4 million.
                   During the war, the Serbs killed 8000 and forced 25,000 to flee. This is universally recognized as genocide and Serbian leaders have been brought to the Hague for it.
                  Israel has killed more people and force hundreds of thousands from their homes. Please explain why Israel isn't held to the same standards as the Bosnian Serbs.

                •  It's quite deniable, because it's fucking bullshit (0+ / 0-)

                  Israel has never sought to "to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group."  That Israel even has to say so is offensive.

                  To that end, Israel has fought and continues fight wars thrust upon it by vicious and genuinely genocidal--if incapable--enemies.  

                  To the extent her operations result in "killing members of the group" or "inflicting serious bodily or mental harm, Israel has conducted herself with greater care for civilian life than damn near every other fighting country in the world today.  In the space of 94 years, fewer Arabs have died or suffered injury in combat with Jews than Iraqis killed and maimed in just ten years of war.  No matter how you feel about that boondoggle, no one is seriously accusing the United States of genocide.

                  The notion that Israel has "[d]eliberately inflict[ed] on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in par" is a flat out lie.  It's also an extremely stupid lie, given that its arithmetically impossible for the excess mortality and injury due to Israel's operations in any conflict to have come close to meeting that standard.

                  To date, the only convictions for the crime of genocide in Serbia
                  pertain to the Srebrenica campaign, and prosecutors established intent because the fuckers repeatedly insisted that's precisely what they were after (along with emphasizing the point with a number of comorbid war crimes).  They went from house to house, rounding up men and boys, and under orders putting bullets in their heads.  So don't give me this bullshit about how Israel behaves just the same--that's a fucking lie.

                  Israel is held to the same standard as the Bosnian Serbs, and no serious observer would draw a false equivalence between the two.  Just as no one would accuse the United States of genocide for her incalculably damaging actions in Iraq.

    •  Palestinians (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      IndieGuy, notagain, cybrestrike

      kinda have an issue with evacuating.  Historically, they fear they won't be able to return

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