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View Diary: That "secret serum" Ebola treatment? GMO. (323 comments)

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  •  Did you even read this diary? (8+ / 0-)

    It's not about labels, even a little bit.

    What will happen the next time the mob comes?--Neil deGrasse Tyson

    by mem from somerville on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 04:28:51 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Did you even read the comment you were so conde... (11+ / 0-)

      Did you even read the comment you were so condescending toward? Even a little bit? Yeah, it was about knowing what's in their food.

      •  Yes. (5+ / 0-)

        It had not a thing to do with this diary. It still doesn't.

        What will happen the next time the mob comes?--Neil deGrasse Tyson

        by mem from somerville on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 05:18:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  mem..... it's fine that you are so passionate (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BruinBlue, jrooth, Debs2, Tommymac, worldlotus

          about the possibilities of GMO products.  

          What you are running up against with some of us is the antagonism displayed in your communication. You won't win us over with that attitude. If you aren't trying to win us over and just want to slam us upside the head for not seeing this topic your way.,... that's also fine, just say so!

          On the other hand, if you want people to chill on the idea of GMO's, and actually take a look at the possible good they can do, and be willing to give the idea a shot, then make it safe for them to communicate their concerns, and views about it. Respond with facts, and rationality. Hatred, antagonism, and a disregard for others viewpoints don't go much past yourself, and the others on the thread who agree with you. And of course, that is fine too.... but you won't get any converts that way.

          In any case, I don't think anyone would be against the idea of controlled/regulated GMO plant grow if it meant a vaccine for Ebola, or other nasties. That's great news!!!!!!!!!

          Corporations before people.... it's the American way!

          by Lucy2009 on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 06:48:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Mmm....Tone trolling. (5+ / 0-)

            What you don't seem to understand is that the same bad information is slung over-and-over by the same people that you know have had access to the correct information--because you gave it to them before.

            C'mon. It's the same recalcitrant characters and you know it. And I'm tired of them repeating the same misinformation over and over. So I'm gonna call them on it.

            And yes--plenty of people are now saying, "Oh, when I said we had to get rid of GMOs I didn't mean this..." Well, I'll believe that when they stop saying the other stupid crap. But I don't see that evidence quite yet.

            What will happen the next time the mob comes?--Neil deGrasse Tyson

            by mem from somerville on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 06:54:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Actually, prior to a few days ago, I haven't been (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              BruinBlue, Tommymac

              on the site much at all since the beginning of the year. So the GMO issues and upsets on this site are all new to me.

              I'm just learning who the pro/anti players are, and to be honest, I don't know most of them. I only recognize a few names.

              You sound really frustrated by the whole situation! That sucks!  I'm just curious..... genuinely..... and I'm not accusing you of shilling, or anything else. I just want to know what makes you so passionate on this particular issue. If I knew where you were coming from on this, it may or may not change how I feel, but at least I would understand the passion and not just think "oh, the pro-GMO people are a bunch of nutters".... which isn't really helpful on a site that is supposed to be composed of liberals who are fighting for the same ideals.

              Thanks for your consideration.

              Corporations before people.... it's the American way!

              by Lucy2009 on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 07:19:12 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Because of my science degrees (9+ / 0-)

                which numerous federal and state agencies helped me to acquire, I feel responsible to get quality science information out to my community. Among liberals, when I do this on topics such as creationism, stem cells, vaccines, women's health--this generally goes well.

                But on plant science--people are so unbelievably fucked up that no amount of gentle explanation works on them. Trust me, I've tried. There are 100 layers of manure between them and the facts. And they have no idea that they sound just like creationists and anti-vaxxers on this topic, with Google U degrees.

                I don't think people realize that interfering with GMO science has consequences as serious as interfering with stem cells and vaccines, for example. There are real public health consequences to putting up barriers to that. Maybe not in the well-fed American home with a nearby Whole Foods, but serious consequences elsewhere.

                And some of them could play out in unintended ways--like losing all the oranges in the not-very-distant future. Even organic Whole Foods OJ won't be available.

                I consistently battle bad policy based on crap science. It's most difficult when it comes from the left, unfortunately.

                What will happen the next time the mob comes?--Neil deGrasse Tyson

                by mem from somerville on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 07:50:36 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  OK, thanks for the info...... see below..... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  worldlotus

                  Now it makes more sense to me why you feel the way you do!

                  So what would be wrong with labeling food as GMO or non-GMO?  That simply gives the consumer the freedom of choice as to what they want to eat and feed to their families. That seems like a very basic right that an individual should have.

                  I think most folks would feel that if a GMO plant is going to abolish Ebola and other killer diseases, then there is a place for GMO food production in our society.....  and probably most or a lot of folks don't care if their food is GMO.... so maybe even more reason to have some of our crops be GMO. But shouldn't there still be room in our agriculture sector for non-GMO food items and organic farming? Shouldn't we at least have the option and choice?

                  GMO's are not a burning priority for me, so I'm not that up on it....  I've never heard of the orange situation. Why would we no longer have oranges in the future if we don't grow them GMO?

                  Isn't there something fundamentally wrong with our farming practices, distribution methods, storage methods, and economy if it's necessary for us to grow food that has anti-bug/mold/etc genes grown into it? With this big country of ours, if we put on our thinking caps and decided to do what is best for human beings, and the environment rather than Big Agr and the U.S. govt, couldn't we figure out how to grow enough food with out altering it, or spraying poisons on it, and that sort of thing?

                  Or have we over-populated ourselves to the point of no return?  There are so many fertilizers being used in Big Agra that at least 50% of the lakes in the country have algae bloom overgrowth that is making water dangerous to drink. That indicates to me, that we are not doing some right!

                  Look forward to your thoughts.

                  Corporations before people.... it's the American way!

                  by Lucy2009 on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 08:25:11 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  " I'm not that up on it" (0+ / 0-)

                    No kidding.

                    In the end, reality always wins.

                    by Lenny Flank on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 09:21:37 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Lenny, I don't know what your deal is and why (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Tommymac, TakeSake, BruinBlue

                      you are following me around the site and now on this thread being hateful and rude, but you need to knock it off. It's not acceptable behaviour by any standards.

                      That question was not addressed to you, and it was a legitimate question with legitimate concerns. I don't want you following me around and making rude comments on each of my posts when they are not directed at you.

                      Clearly I'm upsetting to you in the extreme, so use some decorum and stop communicating with me, and I will do the same with regards to your comments.

                      Corporations before people.... it's the American way!

                      by Lucy2009 on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 09:46:36 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  don't flatter yourself (shrug) /nt (0+ / 0-)

                        In the end, reality always wins.

                        by Lenny Flank on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 09:56:44 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  No, Lucy2009 - (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        serendipityisabitch, houyhnhnm

                        no one is following you. You just happen to be interested in some of the same things Lenny, mem, billybush, etc., are interested in. But the people I mentioned are coming at certain topics from a completely different perspective than you.

                        Yes - they are passionate about science and become passionately defensive when the same old tired, crap arguments and misleading "statements" are proffered over and over and over again by a certain segment of the blogosphere, part of which resides right here on DKos.

                        Anti-vaxxer? Expect a smack-down. Pro-homeopathy/sCAM? Expect a smack down. Anti-GMOer? Expect a smack down.

                        No one likes being told they're wrong or uninformed or misinformed - I get that. But each of us occasionally is wrong/uninformed/misinformed. And when you are, expect someone who knows more than you do to let you know.

                        Taking it personally isn't going to change anyone's "tone" or perspective. Because, truly, it isn't about you, Lucy2009.

                        “…The day shit is worth money, poor people will be born without an asshole.” – Gabriel Garcí­a Márquez, The Autumn of the Patriarch

                        by mikidee on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 05:31:09 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Take a look at Lenny's comments (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          atana

                          They are not about science.  They don't attempt to convey any point or correct any misinformation.  They are character attacks.  Lucy admitted her own lack of knowledge on the topic and was asking for information... no "smackdown" is warranted.  

                          Lenny also seems to only have about 3 comments in his arsenal that he relentlessly repeats.  He has made no valuable contribution to this conversation and certainly hasn't helped to change any minds.  

                          •  You and I disagree about (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            serendipityisabitch

                            Lenny's contributions. But my comment was not about Lenny - it was to Lucy about Lucy's ridiculous claim that Lenny was "following" her. But you know that ....

                            Lenny is frustrated - and it shows. So what. This a blog - people get frustrated and they argue and they aren't always sweet and loving about it. But you know that, too.

                            If you think it's possible to open certain minds that have demonstrated over and over and over again that they don't want to hear anything that contradicts their absolute certainty that GMOs ARE EVIL, well, have at it. I look forward to reading it.

                            But in the meantime I'll ask you to tone down your tone-policing because, IMNSHO, it adds little if anything to the conversation and certainly hasn't opened my mind to a single anti-GMO argument.

                            “…The day shit is worth money, poor people will be born without an asshole.” – Gabriel Garcí­a Márquez, The Autumn of the Patriarch

                            by mikidee on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 03:26:14 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Thanks, BruinBlue. You put it much better (0+ / 0-)

                            than I.

                            There are some interesting articles on this site that I like to read, but the threads are just big shit fests so often. It's really disappointing

                            Corporations before people.... it's the American way!

                            by Lucy2009 on Thu Aug 07, 2014 at 12:50:03 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  No, mikidee you are wrong..... (0+ / 0-)

                          He was following me, and the content of his comments were vicious/hateful/rude, and of no other substance. They had nothing to do with the thread or conversation.

                          The no-best attitude on this site about the subjects you list above is pathetic.

                          Re GMO's particularly.....Show me research and testing done by a FULLY INDEPENDENT AND COMPREHENSIVE body that states GMO's are both safe and NECESSARY to our food production and sustainability, and I'll reconsider my stance on them. Not until then.

                          I know it's really fun for you and folks of your ilk to "smack down" people.... but it's actually just sick and unproductive BS that people do online because they can get away with it.

                           

                          Corporations before people.... it's the American way!

                          by Lucy2009 on Thu Aug 07, 2014 at 12:48:43 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

          •  Agreed Lucy2009. Spot on. n/t (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lucy2009, worldlotus

            • "But such is the irresistable nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants is the liberty of appearing." Thomas Paine
            • "The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool." Stephen King

            by Tommymac on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 10:40:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  A lot of the comments are a response to (14+ / 0-)

      comments that belittle people who are skeptical about GMO (broad strokes, not Ebola magic serum) ;-)

      And your responses are condescending. Big Ag has played a large role in people's mistrust of "GMO" (which I understand is a very broad nomenclature). If people are skeptical, it is for good reason. Nuance is a lot harder to sustain when the heavy hand of Big Ag and corporations control the discourse, the law and the science (they fund a lot of those studies, and control a lot of the funding in research institutions). That doesn't mean the studies are invalid, but there is certainly a conflict of interest.

    •  You deliberately conflated (11+ / 0-)

      arguing GMO food, with arguing against all things GMO, even medicines.

      So yes, its about GMO food too, because of that gratuitous and false position. That's on you.

      •  They are bitching about labels. (4+ / 0-)

        This diary still has nothing to do with labels. In fact, I'm specifically asking people to separate out the science piece. And this only demonstrates how incapable people are of doing that.

        What will happen the next time the mob comes?--Neil deGrasse Tyson

        by mem from somerville on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 06:00:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You brought food into the discussion (7+ / 0-)
          Now, some of you are going to say--well, that's different, tobacco is not food.... Yesh, I am aware of that.  However...
          You can't bring up a topic in the diary and then get pissed when commenters discuss it.

          And arguing "It's dumb to oppose or be skeptical of all GMO applications because look at this awesome thing it did!" is about as ridiculous and intellectually irresponsible as someone saying "Ban all GMOs because look how evil Monsanto is!"

          •  That's still not labels. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jeff Simpson

            And, once again, the point is that people cannot think past that fixation.

            Can you please point out where I used that quote? Or are your free-range fictionalizing?

            What will happen the next time the mob comes?--Neil deGrasse Tyson

            by mem from somerville on Mon Aug 04, 2014 at 07:53:28 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What is the point you'd like to lead them to? (8+ / 0-)

              If this diary was just about pointing out a cool and potentially life-saving application of GMO technology that would be great, but it's clearly more than that.  

              You move beyond presentation of this topic and use it as evidence that opposition to GMO's in other applications is foolish.  That is where you invite discussion beyond this Ebola treatment.  

              When someone then counters that they still see their support of GMO labeling as valid and separate from the use of GMO in medication, you can't insult them by saying their simply fixated on this point.  

              You opened up the discussion beyond Ebola treatment.  If you'd like it to go in a particular direction, you should clarify that.  

        •  You conflated, so I addressed it (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tommymac, Joieau

          Otherwise, I wouldn't even be in this diary.

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