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View Diary: Shame on Those Here that Smear Elie Wiesel (455 comments)

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  •  well here is some discussion on the matter (8+ / 0-)

    http://www.cnn.com/...
    http://gawker.com/...
    http://www.independent.co.uk/...

    However, in light of world skepticism regarding IDF claims of human shields, the IDF now claims to have captured a Hamas operational manual which details when, where and how Hamas operatives should use human shields:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/...

    Funny thing about this manual is that it seems to acknowledge that the IDF is trying to avoid civilian casualties and discusses how Hamas fighters can optimize civilian casualties.  That this document comes to light seems to be most fortuitous for the IDF  

    •  I'm sure India and France (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NYFM, IL clb, Mets102, Red Sox, JNEREBEL

      are in on the conspiracy also:

      http://www.nytimes.com/...

      http://www.jta.org/...

      What's freeking hilarious is how many people believe whatever vomit hamas spits out without question but the Israeli's do nothing but lie.  That's what is freeking hilarious.

      •  nice to see you are objective; pity more (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PrahaPartizan, poco, frostbite

        people here are not as objective.

        However, if this is an operations manual, it seems a bit odd that the author would acknowledge that the IDF is playing by all the rules so Hamas has to move the goalposts.

        http://www.juancole.com/...

        •  Juan Cole? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mets102, Red Sox, JNEREBEL

          I'm afraid you're going to have to do better than that.  The topic was hamas using human shields.  The links point to the truth of that.  That you can't handle it is entirely your problem.

          •  Whom do you recommend in your objective (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            poco

            analysis of if Hamas uses human shields?  (BTW, simply conducting operations in a civilian setting does not de facto constitute human shields.  If Israel were concerned about civilians, it seems they would allow noncombatants to flee and not keep them bottled up.

            If you would, it would seem the problem is Israel is holding the noncombatants as hostages vs Hamas using human shields

            •  Disagree (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Mannie

              If hamas is hiding among civilians and shooting off rockets from areas heavy with civilians, it's entirely hamas's fault for any harm that comes to them.  Let's remember, hamas IS the government in Gaza, not some out of control hooligans their government is fighting.

              •  so why won't Israel let the population leave? (0+ / 0-)

                I am sure the civilians would be happy to relocate to the Sinai or to WB but the borders are closed.  So long as the IDF keeps the population bottled up, casualties are a result of their policies.

                Also Hamas is not the only one firing rockets.  There are half a dozen or so militias operating in Gaza, some Hamas, some Fatah affiliated and some non-affiliated.

                Our own Pentagon predicts that if Hamas is destroyed, a more extreme group will take power.  Now consider dealing with ISIS for example, which would then control 2 fronts from which to hit Israel

                (BTW, you still have not named a reliable, objective ME expert I should rely upon for information)

                •  Why are you pretending Israel (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Mannie

                  has anything to do with the Egyptian border (where Sinai is)?  How nice of you to prove Israel's point that hamas isn't the only problem in gaza and any peace deal is doomed to fail because of all the different factions.

                  As far as reliable reporting - that's hard to come by on this issue but I watch BBC world religiously (pun intended).

                  •  Sissi is acting in coordination with Israel (0+ / 0-)

                    Sissi's continued governance depends upon controlling the MB.  That is why Egypt advanced a ceasefire proposal that Israel accepted or why Egypt and Israel long with the Saudis are coordinating their efforts to suppress the Arab Spring
                    http://www.usatoday.com/...
                    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/... (Sissi and Mubarak have almost identical policies)

                    I note you fail to address why Gazans cannot flee to the WB even if Egypt does not cooperate in Sinai.  Care to address that?

                    BTW while BBC does do outstanding work at time, it was gutted by Tony Blair during the "sexed up portfolio" affair you may remember, with the British version of a Saturday Night Massacre.  I do note that their reporters have a habit of reporting from remote locations instead of from inside "hot zones"  

                    •  I would have thought that (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Mannie

                      obvious.  Since hamas doesn't wear uniforms, it would hardly be in anybody's best interest - Israeli or Palestinians - to allow an open border to the West Bank.  hamas simply cannot be trusted.

                      You're still pretending Israel has something to do with the Egyptian border.  It's not like they can open it.

                      •  so you bottle up the civilians and then complain (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        poco

                        when you kill them?  I guess you missed this
                        http://online.wsj.com/...

                        •  No - you wait for (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Mannie

                          Gazans to elect something other than a terrorist organization. Oh wait - hamas (the little darlings) cancelled at least one election that I remember.   It can't possibly be that hamas isn't popular enough to win - at least according to those here.

                          I still see you have virtually nothing to say about Egypt continuing to keep their border closed.  Have you asked yourself why only Qatar is showing any support for hamas?  Don't you find the silence in the Muslim countries in the mid-east surprising at all?  Have you bothered to ask yourself why that is?

                          •  considering the present political alliance (0+ / 0-)

                            not really.  Which countries do you think would support Hamas?  Libya is a mess as is Syria while Iran is taking care of its own presently.  Egypt has cooperated with Israel for decades and Turkey is not going to risk its relationship with the EU.  Jordan is a long time cooperator with Israel as well while SA dominates UAE and Yemen and Bahrain.  We have installed our own governments in Afghanistan and Iran so which country does that leave?

                            Maybe Lebanon?  However the Lebanese have a shaky truce going between the various groups and really is not going to rock the boat with ISIS on their border, so which ME country do you expect to step up.

                            BTW you also continue to ignore that Hamas is a MB offshoot and Sissi is dedicated to destroying the MB as it threatens his cabal's privileged existence.

                            I find it amusing that you endorse monarchies and military juntas but then are upset that Hamas cancels elections once.  Why not mention what happened in Egypt and to Morsi's government?

                            I really suggest you try reading some foreign press sometimes.  It can be an eyeopener.  For example, I guess you missed the list of individuals and groups which the US considered terrorists at one time or the other and then later was embarrassed by history.  Try checking out Central America as a starting point

                          •  Why would you find (0+ / 0-)

                            it amusing when I'm continually reminded that hamas is the elected government of Gaza?  They don't bother to mention that they cancelled at least one election and know they aren't as popular as some people here want to believe.

                            ALL those countries you mentioned (including Egypt and Jordan) have, in the past, shown solidarity with the Palestinians - but not this time.  And that's because they realize how dangerous hamas is for the region.  Nobody here wants to acknowledge that.

                            I don't need a lesson in the US's many fuck ups in Latin America.  I learned a long time ago we don't have allies - we have interests.

                          •  solidarity with PLO or with Fatah I think (0+ / 0-)

                            if you check, except for Egypt where it was the Morsi government which was deposed by Sissi

                            I am sorry if you are offended I am beginning to be amused by some of your stances but in the face of recent ISIS advances, Hamas is dangerous for the region?

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