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View Diary: Shame on Those Here that Smear Elie Wiesel (455 comments)

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  •  Nor is this: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mets102, leftynyc, Mannie
    I call upon the Palestinian people to find true Muslims to represent them, Muslims who would never voluntarily place a child in danger.

    Most of the people taking a hard line against us are firmly convinced that they are the last defenders of civilization... The last stronghold of mother, God, home and apple pie and they're full of shit! David Crosby, Journey Thru the Past.

    by Mike S on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 11:02:03 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Yes it is. (11+ / 0-)

      It's the soft dehumanization of asking one side to reject its nihilistic extremists as the price for survival: the idea, which would be laughable if not for the context, that it's Gazans rather than Israelis who have to make some tough choices if Gazans aren't to be killed, by Israelis, in large numbers.  If you don't think that's dehumanizing, try turning the sentence around!  Then there's the whole idea that Palestinians should put their children and families first by renouncing their national aspirations, again in a way that wouldn't be well received if we asked Israelis to do it.  

      I don't think Wiesel has said anything genocidal or even especially rotten by US standards when it comes to defending Israel, but I do think he's earned himself some "have you no shame?" scolding.

      It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

      by Rich in PA on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 11:12:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Really? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Velvele

        We need to make room for nihilistic extremists, because they're fighting on behalf of the side we think of as the underdog? Demanding that proponents of a cause reject its extremists is the very opposite of dehumanization of any kind; it's precisely the humanization of a struggle. It's the rejection of the bestial "dog eat dog" for the affirmation that there are rules and limits because we are human and can choose. And if we are not to ask for rejection of nihilistic extremists on the Gazan side, on what possible grounds could we reject extremists on the Israeli side?

        •  That's not quite my point. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BradyB, poco

          I meant that asking people who themselves are living under Hamas oppression, and who themselves have been reduced to total material and societal destitution, to throw off their oppressors or face destruction by Israel isn't really a reasonable request.  

          It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

          by Rich in PA on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 12:11:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Except (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mets102, Velvele, JNEREBEL

            the material and societal deprivations are the direct result of electing a terrorist organization to govern. I grant you that the population of Gaza now finds itself almost literally between a rock and a hard place. But since the actions of the extremists can't do anything but make a bad situation much worse, I can't see that doing anything to encourage the extremists does anything but greater damage—the extremists have no hope whatsoever of prevailing over Israel by force.

    •  I want to say again that I do not like the defense (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rich in PA, IndieGuy, edg

      of the massive scale of this attack though. The death toll and the destruction rained down on Gaza is indefensible. When this is finally over where are the people he is calling on to choose moderates supposed to live? How many more terrorists have they created by making people watch their entire families annihilated? How many versions of Wiesel have been killed, people who would forgive and work to create a world where Muslim and Jew work together for a better world?

      Those would have been far better points to include in this advertisement than simply attacking one side to the exclusion of the other.

      Most of the people taking a hard line against us are firmly convinced that they are the last defenders of civilization... The last stronghold of mother, God, home and apple pie and they're full of shit! David Crosby, Journey Thru the Past.

      by Mike S on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 11:19:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Funny you bring up that quote (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      IndieGuy, poco, BradyB, ExpatGirl

      Since people on the Israel-can-do-no-wrong side freaked out when InAntalya turned that line around earlier today.  

      •  Actually that was a very poorly done diary by (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mannie

        InItalya. At the very least he should have linked the advertisement in the diary.

        Most of the people taking a hard line against us are firmly convinced that they are the last defenders of civilization... The last stronghold of mother, God, home and apple pie and they're full of shit! David Crosby, Journey Thru the Past.

        by Mike S on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 05:25:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          capelza, ExpatGirl, poco

          which is why I didn't rec the diary despite my respect for him.  But all he did was replace the word "Muslim" with "Jew" and all of a sudden, people found it really offensive.  Yet you cite that quote as "Not dehumanizing" to Muslims.  

          •  People found it dehumanizing when Wiesel used (0+ / 0-)

            it too. I found it not much different than when I call on Israel to elect better people or when I call on us to elect better people.

            Most of the people taking a hard line against us are firmly convinced that they are the last defenders of civilization... The last stronghold of mother, God, home and apple pie and they're full of shit! David Crosby, Journey Thru the Past.

            by Mike S on Thu Aug 07, 2014 at 12:33:46 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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