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View Diary: Shame on Those Here that Smear Elie Wiesel (455 comments)

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  •  If you haven't figured it out yet (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mets102, Gary Norton, leftynyc, NYFM, Mannie, rduran

    This site has gone off the rails.

    Justifications for ongoing terrorism.  Support of political and military groups that want to clear the land from the river to the sea.  Israel is intent on committing "genocide"?  No, someone is f'g with me. Yet, it gets lapped up and rec'd.  

    Yeah, Elie Weisel is a bigoted a*hole.  Really?  Yet here it is on Dkos.  

    Don't you wonder why strong voices have been banned or left?

    And the owner and FP just lets it go on and on...Eyeballs = $$.

    Crap.

    "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

    by EdMass on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 11:11:02 AM PDT

    •  He left his humanity in his other jacket (11+ / 0-)

      When Wiesel wrote this op-ed (as opposed to so many others that were noble and insightful), he somehow left his intelligence and objectivity in his other jacket.

      Israel has been mounting a slow-motion ethnic cleansing program against the Palestinians for at least half a century.

      Just look at a map of Palestinian population vs settlements.
      Just look at the security Wall.
      Just look at the blockade in Gaza.

      Better yet, just look at Jerusalem real estate ads for houses in areas that were seized as settlements after 1967. Ya wanna buy a nifty apartment with a great view?

      Israel keeps turning the screws, suffocating the Palestinian economy and population ... then expresses horrified outrage when their victims fight back with the meager tools at their disposal.

      None of that is on Wiesel's moral radar in this op-ed. Instead, he makes a broad-brush claim that Palestinians worship death, not life.

      A fairer person might posit that maybe they prefer to risk death rather than live under hopeless oppression. Seems to me that explanation has a fair bit of historical validation and precedent.

      As Jews and Israel should well understand.

      Maturity: Doing what you know is right - even though you were told to do it

      by grapes on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 11:49:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And what would you do (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mets102, Mannie, rduran

        with suicide bombers, indiscriminate rocket attacks from both Lebanon and Gaza, etc, etc.?  

        Just look at a map of Palestinian population vs settlements.
        Just look at the security Wall.
        Just look at the blockade in Gaza.
        C'mon.  Tell me.  

        What is your "moral radar"?  Seems you have a side?

        "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

        by EdMass on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 11:57:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Actions that repeatdly kill children are right out (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          greenbell, CenPhx, IndieGuy, Shotput8

          If IDF's "wars" are for the purpose of stopping rocket attacks, it didn't work the last several times, why keep doing it?

          The IDF are attacking in ways that assure children and civilians will be killed. Putting so many children in immediate fatal risk can only be morally done in desperate self defense. If one is not in great imminent danger from whatever is behind the children, then it makes a great difference and war crime that children are then killed. Killing children should be avoided to the point of taking reasonable risk to first move the children out of harms way before dealing with what is behind.

          and USA (also a child-killing rogue state) is sending more ammunition, shame.

          The boss needs you, you don't need him. -- France general strike, May 1968

          by stargaze on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 12:23:13 PM PDT

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        •  I don't have a side ... but I get there are 2 (6+ / 0-)

          It is Israel that cannot see two sides.

          Israel has vast superiority in weapons, defenses, economics, technology, communications, transportation and logistics, freedom of movement, infrastructure, etc. etc.

          But it has used that power to be a serial bully. So I am thoroughly unimpressed by its attempts to play the victim card. Frankly, it's pretty pathetic.

          You back a mouse into a corner and it will flash you its teeth. Keep 5 or 6 generations of mice backed into a corner and all you can expect to see are their teeth.

          What part of that is too sophisticated for the Israeli intellect to comprehend?

          Maturity: Doing what you know is right - even though you were told to do it

          by grapes on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 12:26:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Review the history n/t (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mets102, Mannie, rduran

            "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

            by EdMass on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 01:18:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I keep forgetting (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mannie

            Moral superiority goes to the side that's losing badly, no matter what disgusting tactics they use.

            Let's not forget that corner happens to be Israel's refusal to go gently into the night, and people actually complain when she builds up the capability to take on any and all comers.

            Fascinating.

        •  Israel could have negotiated a peace (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CenPhx, SCFrog, IndieGuy, Shotput8

          with the Palestinians, decades ago.  If they were willing to negotiate in good faith.  But, they have the unconditional support of the USA, overwhelming military strength, a much more effective diaspora, and a strong thirst for land.  So they said "Fuck it!", and they're trying to get rid of their 'Palestinian problem' in other ways.  What would you have the Palestinians do, besides capitulate and accept life in a Bantustan? (die? swim for it? maybe they could all apply for refugee status in the USA?) (*)

          To go from that to accusing Palestinians of being in a 'death cult' or some such nonsense is what causes a lot of people to condemn Wiesel and others as hypocrites.

          * No this does not mean I support what they're actually doing.  But I don't believe that crock about 'non-violent resistance', either.

          190 milliseconds....

          by Kingsmeg on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 12:42:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Review the "accords" going back to Carter n/t (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mets102, Mannie

            "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

            by EdMass on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 01:18:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  It is sad. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      poco, IndieGuy, Shotput8

      That Likud wants to clear the land from the river to the sea. As elucidated in their charter:

      c. “The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.”

      Corporations, which should be the carefully restrained creatures of the law and the servants of the people, are fast becoming the people’s masters. -- President Grover Cleveland, 1888

      by edg on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 01:00:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Found your source (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mets102, Mannie

        This was from 1999.  No link to source document in your post or the source itself.  Not that you're not "quoting".  

        Not much has happened since then, has it?  No positions have changed.  No further actions were taken on the part of Israel since then.  Oh wait, Gaza 2005 among others.

        Phhhttt.

        "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

        by EdMass on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 02:02:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  When was Hamas charter written? (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          IndieGuy, CenPhx, poco, Shotput8

          I'm waiting for you to dismiss it as an obsolete document and tell us positions have changed.

          Corporations, which should be the carefully restrained creatures of the law and the servants of the people, are fast becoming the people’s masters. -- President Grover Cleveland, 1888

          by edg on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 02:26:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You will wait a long time (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mannie

            POTUS has just said at his presser, he has no sympathy for HAMAS.

            And all that goes with it.

            "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

            by EdMass on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 03:52:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Argument from authority. Cool! n/t (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              poco, Shotput8, CenPhx

              Corporations, which should be the carefully restrained creatures of the law and the servants of the people, are fast becoming the people’s masters. -- President Grover Cleveland, 1888

              by edg on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 03:58:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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