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View Diary: Cease Fire Violated by Gaza Terrorists (279 comments)

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  •  Not as many as Hamas wanted (16+ / 0-)

    Israel built Iron Dome and bomb shelters. Hamas built rockets and infiltration tunnels. Its leaders get bomb shelters and its subjects get to be human shields.

    •  Israel also built walls and new settlements. nt (11+ / 0-)

      "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

      by ranger995 on Thu Aug 07, 2014 at 09:12:00 PM PDT

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      •  Yeah. Walls and settlements (5+ / 1-)

        Those age old weapons of mass destruction.

        •  Took care of the Indians pretty good, (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pluto, AoT, poco, CenPhx, WattleBreakfast

          Some 50 to 100 million dead.

        •  asdf (5+ / 0-)

          Do you honestly not see how Israel's actions on that front have helped fuel this mess?

          I've got three tools in my arsenal: my voice, my wallet and my vote.

          by ExpatGirl on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 12:02:51 AM PDT

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          •  No (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Victor Ward, JayinPortland

            I do not see how Israel's actions on that front justify lobbing rockets indiscriminately at civilians, or dispatching suicide bombers, or murdering three teenagers.  On the contrary, I see it as evidence of crippling anti-Semitism in Palestinian society, which in itself is a reason for evacuating the settlements.

            At the world's expense, of course.

            •  If they would only fight fair against the (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ExpatGirl, CenPhx

              multi-billion dollar Israeli war machine. I mean what's wrong with them? Why don't they just present an army on the battlefield so that Israeli planes, tanks, and artillery could wipe them off the face of the earth in a matter of seconds.

              Also, I know you don't give a shit, but Israeli casualties in this conflict are almost exclusively military, while Palestinian casualties are nearly all innocent civilians.

              "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

              by ranger995 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 09:29:03 AM PDT

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              •  They needn't fight at all (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Victor Ward

                But Hamas and friends, being the genocidal dens of militant scum it is, can't contemplate any other path.  So the terrorists must be destroyed, and then there will be peace--one way or another.

                You're right, I don't give a shit.  Israel has taken every measure possible to protect both civilian and military lives.  A sharp contrast from Hamas, which lives both for death and forces Palestinians to accompany them on the road to ruin.

                •  Wow, your comment is just like Hamas propaganda. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  CenPhx

                  I bet you could find a Hamas statement that reads identically to yours, but replaces Hamas with Israel.

                  At least you admit you don't give a shit, and that there "will be peace--one way or another"

                  Yeah, that's the rhetoric of the innocent defending themselves.  

                  "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

                  by ranger995 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 12:58:10 PM PDT

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              •  Are you advocating violence? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Victor Ward

                The most substantive steps toward peace in this conflict have been when the fighting ended. The Oslo accords were the biggest leap forward since 1948 in Palestinian-Israeli relations. The fighting has accomplished nothing.

                It sounds like your comment is implying that it's unfair to ask the Palestinian militants to stop targeting civilians. If that's not the case, I apologize for misunderstanding you.

                A List of the Most Common Logical Fallacies: http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm

                by mnemosyne42 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 02:37:39 PM PDT

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                •  rduran is advocating violence. (0+ / 0-)

                  It seems that you all think it is unfair to ask the Israeli IDF to stop targeting civilians. You all have great excuses for it, while lots of civilians are dying. That seems a lot more like advocating violence and excusing extremely violent behavior.

                  FYI-- you were mistaken, or, more likely, purposefully trying to mischaracterize what I wrote. I was merely pointing out the ridiculousness of someone calling for people armed with sticks and stones to present themselves in a way that would allow them to be easily killed by people armed with tanks, fighter jets, and artillery.

                  "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

                  by ranger995 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 09:46:04 PM PDT

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                  •  Please don't assume you know what I think. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Proteus7

                    I've repeatedly condemned the Israeli government for killing civilians. I also recognize that when Hamas fires rockets into civilian areas in Israel from within civilian areas in Gaza, the IDF is put in a difficult situation and errs on the side of protecting the Israeli people, which is its duty. The scale of the action may be disproportionate, but I'm not sure what other choice the actual troops have. Whereas the government has the freedom to dictate policy, the IDF can't do anything but carry that policy out.

                    I didn’t ask you what rduran was saying, since that statement was clearly condemning the violence Hamas has perpetrated against Israeli civilians:

                    I do not see how Israel's actions on that front justify lobbing rockets indiscriminately at civilians, or dispatching suicide bombers, or murdering three teenagers.
                    Your response was couched in sarcasm and sounded very much like you were rationalizing the violence rduran was criticizing by saying that because Israel's military is more powerful than Hamas' militant forces, it's perfectly acceptable for Hamas to target civilians in order to level the field. Your statement did not seem to denounce the violence on either side so much as argue that the imbalance justifies the targeting of civilians.

                    Perhaps if Hamas were willing to drop the whole "wipe Israel from the face of the Earth" crusade and give up the weapons that are only useful as a means to attack civilian targets in Israel, Likud would finally see sense and end the blockade and begin the process toward peace. That's my hope, at least.

                    A List of the Most Common Logical Fallacies: http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm

                    by mnemosyne42 on Sat Aug 09, 2014 at 10:53:06 AM PDT

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        •  Walls and settlement are illegal. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AoT, ranger995, CenPhx

          They're building in territories that don't belong to them.

        •  The age old weapons of oppression and (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CenPhx

          discrimination. Certainly part of a policy that deems certain people to be of lesser quality/importance than another.

          "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

          by ranger995 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 01:02:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Weapons? Hardly (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Victor Ward, JayinPortland, Zornorph

            Weapons were the things carried by the thugs at the gates, used to ensure only those worthy of their fickle respect could pass.

            A wall is fundamentally a defensive structure.  A settlement is fundamentally a home.  How people conduct themselves, with and without amenities, can give rise to civil society or lead to heinous atrocity.

            •  Those walls are offensive, not defensive. (0+ / 0-)

              They are meant to keep the population in and isolated, not protect the people on the other side. No matter what bullshit rhetoric you choose to whitewash what is going on with the settlement expansion, it is an aggressive act and you know it.

              Let's see how you would like getting your house bulldozed so that someone else can build a new house and move in. I bet you wouldn't use such bullshit innocuous language to explain that.

              Yes the poor and oppressed need to behave themselves. Then the world would be all better. Rich white people have been telling that to black communities throughout the United States forever, maybe you can better explain it to them.

              "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

              by ranger995 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 09:57:55 PM PDT

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              •  They look pretty defensive to me (0+ / 0-)

                They keep the killing cult largely at bay.  Of course there's not a lot of walls, certainly not enough to protect those three young boys from Hamas.

                I imagine I wouldn't like it one bit.  But I'd probably be more pissed at my so-called friends living it up safely thousands of miles of way because they couldn't bother to spare a brother a dollar.  

                I don't know about the poor and oppressed, but no one should be beholden to murderous theocrats/smugglers/all-around-pricks.  I wouldn't much like be around when the people they're trying to kill hit back, but I wouldn't shed any tears for them either.

    •  "Not as many as Hamas wanted" = 0 (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Victor Ward, AoT

      And Israel "regrets" the unfortunate "collateral damage."




      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

      by DeadHead on Thu Aug 07, 2014 at 09:51:31 PM PDT

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    •  No need to spin when the truth is on your side. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RedsFanForever

      There's plenty to say about Hamas, and plenty of misinformation about Israel to correct    You don't have to say things that make those who defend Israel's right to exist look ridiculous - Israel does spend money on offensive weapons, too, and you know that.  

      There's just no need to spin when the truth is on your side.

      "Journalistic conventions make it hard for reporters to deal with a big, complicated lie." -- Michael Kinsley.

      by dcg2 on Thu Aug 07, 2014 at 10:50:38 PM PDT

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