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View Diary: Cuomo's primary opponent addresses fracktovists (bigger update on fracking) (116 comments)

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  •  hmm (0+ / 0-)

    you say "trying to save the Democratic party from itself".

    I would think that the Democratic party is not trying to destroy itself.

    Was Alex Sink trying to lose in Florida?

    No, she just happened to lose, not because she made some terrible mistake

    It is occasionally said that Democrats lose because they do not offer people something to vote for. However, it is not at all clear that this is the case

    by GideonAB on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 07:55:07 AM PDT

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    •  Yeah, and who put her in that race to begin with? (5+ / 0-)
      Was Alex Sink trying to lose in Florida?
      Who insisted that she carpetbag her way into the primary for FL-13?
      I would think that the Democratic party is not trying to destroy itself.
      I wouldn't think that. In fact, I'd think quite the opposite lately...

      "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

      by lunachickie on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 08:52:44 AM PDT

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      •  well (0+ / 0-)

        Is there any polling that shows that the carpetbag was her downfall?

        I think we should learn lessons from the hard data

        It is occasionally said that Democrats lose because they do not offer people something to vote for. However, it is not at all clear that this is the case

        by GideonAB on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 08:57:43 AM PDT

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        •  mythical polls aren't the point, of course (6+ / 0-)

          The point is clearly this:

          Yeah, and who put her in that race to begin with?  

             

          Was Alex Sink trying to lose in Florida?
          Who insisted that she carpetbag her way into the primary for FL-13?
          The Democratic Party Leadership owns that. No way do they get a pass, either--hence my comment.
          I would think that the Democratic party is not trying to destroy itself.
          And you would be wrong to think that. If they're not trying to destroy themselves deliberately, then they've either been completely corrupted from within, or else they're the most inept, stupid leadership that ever walked upright.

          "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

          by lunachickie on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 09:14:12 AM PDT

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          •  Steve Israel wanted Sink to run again (5+ / 0-)

            after she lost that race and the '10 FL-Gov race (and after she played a central role in her late husband's abysmal '02 FL-Gov campaign).  Consciously rewarding ineptitude is an odd concept.

            Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

            by RFK Lives on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 09:37:57 AM PDT

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            •  Isn't it? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              shaharazade, Chi
              Consciously rewarding ineptitude is an odd concept.

              "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

              by lunachickie on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 09:41:30 AM PDT

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            •  well (0+ / 0-)

              You run with the best candidate you have, according to the best reading of the polls.

              If there was a better person, why did he not beat Sink in the primary?

              It is occasionally said that Democrats lose because they do not offer people something to vote for. However, it is not at all clear that this is the case

              by GideonAB on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 10:02:39 AM PDT

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              •  So you know nothing about the race in question? (0+ / 0-)


                If there was a better person, why did he not beat Sink in the primary?
                Jessica Erlich would have been the challenger.

                And please, please--lose the implied condescension:
                 

                You run with the best candidate you have, according to the best reading of the polls.

                That's just a cop-out, now that the trope of "Stop complaining! You could have challenged Candidate X in The Primary!!!" is starting to be seen for the joke that it is.

                If we were smart, we'd start mapping all the districts where good primary challengers were "encouraged not to run" by our own party leadership. That would be one hell of a telling graphic.

                "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

                by lunachickie on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 11:15:32 AM PDT

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              •  Still pretending (0+ / 0-)

                the challenger to Sink was a HE?

                Yes, that's what I thought...

                "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

                by lunachickie on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 06:12:12 AM PDT

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            •  Consciously rewarding failure is the Dem party way (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SouthernLiberalinMD

              especially with their campaign consultants (see Shrum, Robert).

              Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

              by Big River Bandido on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:52:48 AM PDT

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            •  Pragmatism is only applicable (0+ / 0-)

              when you're a populist or progressive candidate.

              If you're in good with the big money, fuck pragmatism!

              A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

              by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:32:14 AM PDT

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    •  Nah. Israel and his party mandarins (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Chi, Big River Bandido, k9disc

      keep pushing her for November even after she lost. That's the point. After the Republican triangulated around her on Social Security. In FL.

      The point is, there's not a lot of evidence anymore that achieving and preserving majorities are a deep concern for Democratic party leadership.

      to quote:

      The most cynical, “pragmatic” political view I can muster, one which disdains all quaint morality and silly concerns over the well-being of the nation, suggests that eight months out from Election Day is a bad time to publicly endorse a policy position with which 70% of the American public disagrees. Hell, another poll not so long ago showed 82% of respondents opposed cuts to Medicare and Social Security.
      and this:
      But if we assume that these men and women--mostly men--aren't ignoramuses, and do know how to read polls, and are perfectly well aware, after more than fifty years' of polling, that the American public does not want Social Security cuts, never has, and apparently never will, no matter how many crappy commercials you make, and furthermore, that elderly people tend to vote in midterm elections at a high rate, and the elderly are even less thrilled with Social Security cuts than the population as a whole, what we're left with is a profoundly disturbing conclusion:  they don't care whether they gain and preserve Democratic majorities or not. They care a lot more about impressing people like this.

      A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 01:31:28 PM PDT

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