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View Diary: Rep. Hank Johnson to introduce bill to stop providing military equipment to local police forces (194 comments)

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  •  I was thinking we could have (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kay3295, Phoenix Woman, raboof

    …a consortium of Leaders in the Middle East come over and draw the borders for us. And oversee the transition.



    For an idea that does not at first seem insane, there is no hope.
    - Albert Einstein:  Leftist, socialist, emo-prog, cosmic visionary.

    by Pluto on Thu Aug 14, 2014 at 03:52:32 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  if the point is to make sure it all blows up (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pluto, Phoenix Woman

      Borders drawn by people ignorant of local identities, loyalties, and interests is what caused the problems in the Middle East.  Logically any borders they drew would have the same effect on us.  I don't know what you'd expect to achieve other than some weird kind of proxy revenge; if so, you're targeting the wrong people - the corpse of the Ottoman Empire was divided up by England and France.

      New England, Greater NYC, Appalachia, the Black Belt, the Lowland South, North Cuba, Scandihoovia, the Driftless Area, Chicagoland, Farm Country, Cow Country, Cascadia, Mormonia, El Norte, Teksis, NorCal, the Bay Area, SoCal, Desert, Hawaii, Alaska, and that's just for starters.

      Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

      by Visceral on Thu Aug 14, 2014 at 04:14:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I actually have an extensive collection (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Visceral, Phoenix Woman

        ….of proposed maps of regions based on all sorts of demographics, economics, geography, and even global geopolitical connections. You are so knowledgeable about all of this, I would be very intrigued by your take. Many times I've wanted to publish them, but it's hard to frame it conversationally.

        Meanwhile, your caveats, above, about divisions are really amped. There is no reason at all that there should be anything contentious about migration. There is every incentive for decency toward people; the punishment for a region being shunned economically would be too drastic to risk. Additionally, there would still be a general union, and all kinds of wonderful benefits for participating. Why do people always look upon things like this as a disaster rather than a joyous occurrence and a great deal of fun and friendly competition and hosting and tourism and celebration.

        People are so terrified of change and creation these days. The US is a rich nation, and once the international murder-sprees cease, the people can enjoy their bounty together. Given the geography of the US, there is really no reason for an extensive military. It is the safest, most protected location on the planet.

        This is the greatest folly and most profound waste in the history of mankind. It is the source for all the hardship that Americans suffer. And it can finally end:



        For an idea that does not at first seem insane, there is no hope.
        - Albert Einstein:  Leftist, socialist, emo-prog, cosmic visionary.

        by Pluto on Thu Aug 14, 2014 at 04:50:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I look at historical examples (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pluto
          There is no reason at all that there should be anything contentious about migration. There is every incentive for decency toward people; the punishment for a region being shunned economically would be too drastic to risk. Additionally, there would still be a general union, and all kinds of wonderful benefits for participating.
          In particular the partition of British India where millions of people died and millions more were displaced, and the slow breakup of former Yugoslavia.  Nobody was ordered to move, but many people felt that they had to anyway - or would want to eventually - since the countries being created were explicitly intended to be dominated by particular ethnic/religious groups.  At the end of the day, the US isn't hypothetically breaking up because we all like each other and get along great.  The hope is that we'll all be better neighbors than we've been roommates.

          The "greater union" troubles me because it seems to defeat the purpose of partition.  It won't accomplish anything to create many out of one if we all end up with an EU-style transnational federation empowered to dictate policy to its constituent nations.  It would only become yet another forum for "think local, act global" conflict and manipulation by an elite or become even more hopelessly and uselessly gridlocked than Washington is now.  OTOH corporations hate borders and tight-knit "we really are all in the same boat" populations willing to defend them.  I would prefer a large number of narrowly targeted vehicles for cooperation; in my mind this would make the cooperation far more likely.

          I would like to see your ideas for how this country really breaks down.

          Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

          by Visceral on Thu Aug 14, 2014 at 07:21:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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