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View Diary: Ferguson Chief releases shooter's name, begins smearing of Michael Brown (433 comments)

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  •  I know (6+ / 0-)

    I was a little disappointed to see that Joan referenced dinotrac's comment in the update. As if there is any possible justification for shooting someone not only running away from you, but turning around with their hands up.

    It is totally, completely irrevelant whether that officer thought Brown was armed. He clearly wasn't when he was running away and sure as hell wasn't when his hands were in the air.

    Mediocrity cannot know excellence ~ Sherlock Holmes

    by La Gitane on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 08:19:54 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I'm obviously not an attorney (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dinotrac

      but if Brown allegedly committed a felony (strong-arm robbery), is the shooting justified when that alleged felon was running away? Don't get mad at me, guys, just curious.

      •  According to MO law (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Medde, drmah

        The officer must believe deadly force is necessary. It's a wide standard, but I don't think it's met in this case.

      •  No. There are very few instances when an officer (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Medde

        of the law can shoot somebody in the back. Deadly force is a tool of last resort.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 09:39:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sure doesn't sound like it. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Medde

          It's been a long time since I took criminal law, and I haven't kept up that well since.

          But...

          a trained police officer should nearly never shoot somebody in the back.  I believe the exceptions involve a reasonable belief that the escaping person was going to threaten the lives of others, and, in the case of a trained police officer, reasonable almost requires the suspect to say, "Gotta go kill me some other people, Jack. Bye."  

          Note the "other".

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 09:42:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thanks, (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dinotrac, La Gitane

            that makes more sense. You know, it's not hard to believe that this was racially motivated. I'm from the South, and all my life I've witnessed racist, sexist, scary cops. My husband once thought it was a good idea to clobber me, and when the police got here they tried to turn things around on me, prompting me to tell them that if they weren't going to arrest him, then they needed to get the hell out of my house. I shouldn't have put it that way, but the reaction of one of the officers bordered on psychotic, eyes bulging, telling me he would find a reason to arrest me. After they left, I decided that if anyone ever broke into my house when he was on duty, I'd have a better chance at defending myself rather than getting the cops involved.

            •  That, I think, is what makes this one especially (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Medde

              delicate. It really isn't hard to believe that it's racially motivated.  If not consciously, then subconsciously.

              I would go a step further: It's hard to believe that it wasn't.

              And this isn't a case like George Zimmerman's.  These are cops.  They're trained for this.  There isn't room for the doubt that could exist around the Florida case.

              But -- the facts aren't in yet, and a tinderbox demands caution.

              LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

              by dinotrac on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 01:49:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  You could not have understood my comment. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      La Gitane

      There is almost never a justification for a police officer to shoot somebody in the back.  It might even be never, but I think there is an exception for extraordinary cases when somebody clearly plans to take other lives.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 08:45:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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