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View Diary: SCOTUS: Actually, We've Already Won (350 comments)

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  •  Define "victory", then. (none)
    Assume that we can't keep filibustering nominees from now until January 20, 2009, when President Hillary Clinton takes over.  Tell me what a "win" looks like for us.

    "Any content-based regulation of the Internet, no matter how benign the purpose, could burn the global village to roast the pig." -- ACLU v Reno (E.D. Pa. 1996)

    by Adam B on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 07:44:09 AM PDT

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    •  I won't assume that (none)
      We can keep filibustering.  Again and again.  What, they go nuclear?  Let them.  Make them do it.  Roberts is a partisan hack as stated many times elsewhere.  He may be smart, but remember that Bush I appointed him to the federal bench when he was 37 years old.  You don't get a Bush to do that if you haven't whacked somebody.  That was 1992.  How many hits has he done for the Bushies since then.  How many will he do while on the court, a speed dial away from the Carlyle group boardroom.

      ---- Take a pill or talk?----

      by apotropaic on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 07:49:59 AM PDT

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      •  no, no, no. (none)
        1.  He was confirmed to the federal bench in 2003 by the current President.

        2.  If they go nuclear and win, we lose.  That's when you see Chief Justice Brown.

        "Any content-based regulation of the Internet, no matter how benign the purpose, could burn the global village to roast the pig." -- ACLU v Reno (E.D. Pa. 1996)

        by Adam B on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 07:54:31 AM PDT

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        •  No, no no what? (4.00)
          He wasn't appointed by Bush I?  Well he was.  Falied, but he was.  Bush II finally got him through.  Why?  Payoff.  He worked on Bush v. Gore, in florida.

          ---- Take a pill or talk?----

          by apotropaic on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 07:56:11 AM PDT

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          •  we've nominated poeple just as young (none)
            Elena Kagan was in her mid-late 30s when nominated by Clinton for the DC Circuit.  Alex Kozinski, a Reagan nominee, was confirmed at the age of 35 to the DC Circuit.

            "Any content-based regulation of the Internet, no matter how benign the purpose, could burn the global village to roast the pig." -- ACLU v Reno (E.D. Pa. 1996)

            by Adam B on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 08:04:46 AM PDT

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            •  OK, OK (none)
              Tit for tat and yadda yadda yadda. Now we are both getting off point.  

              We clearly don't agree and won't.  I looked at some of your earlier diaries and you still seem to take solace in the law even though this executive has trampled it and spit on it and thrown it out.  You could well have, in a few months, an executive whose primary advisors have been pardoned of crimes.  Serious crimes.  They will be pardoned and keep their jobs.  The nation will be officially and demonstrably run by criminals.

              Will you concede then that we can't keep letting them carry out their supposed parlimentary prerogatives?  Just cuz they were "elected"?

              ---- Take a pill or talk?----

              by apotropaic on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 08:11:43 AM PDT

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              •  If there's one thing I'm sure of. (none)
                Bush can't and won't pardon Rove until January 19, 2009.  It's beyond politically unfeasible.

                "Any content-based regulation of the Internet, no matter how benign the purpose, could burn the global village to roast the pig." -- ACLU v Reno (E.D. Pa. 1996)

                by Adam B on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 08:16:35 AM PDT

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                •  Nothing is politically unfeasible (none)
                  That's what these folks are proving.  You have to quit assuming things like that.  I would have thought it was politically unfeasible for a president to state publically that his policy was not to fire anyone who hadn't committed a crime.

                  ---- Take a pill or talk?----

                  by apotropaic on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 08:20:12 AM PDT

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                •  Sure he can (4.00)
                  GHW Bush pardoned Caspar Weinberger, among others 11 others, in December 1992. In the first months of his term he pardoned Armand Hammer---even though Reagan had just turned him down. Joe Conason in Salon

                  Reagan pardoned Mark Felt in April 1981.

                  Ford pardoned Nixxon in September 1974.

                  Presidents take heat for pardons of their friends and political allies, but they still do it.

                  Bush will surely pardon Rove at the first opportunity. And while he's at it he will probably pardon himself.

                  Resist much, obey little. ~~Edward Abbey, via Walt Whitman

                  by willyr on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 08:55:37 AM PDT

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    •  Victory... (none)
      under these circumstances would be a moderate conservative nominee, not a far right one. We can't filibuster until 2009, but we can filibuster Roberts and demand a moderate. If the Republicans want to go nuclear let them. Bush is out of political capital. Dems need to stop rolling over and pretending the shit that Republicans feed them tastes like honey. Americans would respect the Democratic party more if they had some fight in them.
    •  If you assume we can't filibuster when we want (none)
      then we have, in fact, lost the nuclear option fight.  In fact, if we were to filibuster, this is the nominee to do it with.  Why?  Because not only is he extreme right-wing, but he has little experience as a judge.  Oh yeah, and also there's that little thing called the mid-term elections.  Last I saw, the nation was pretty firmly against the nuclear option; filibuster now and make the Republicans either push the button before the midterm elections (and, therefore, suffer the consequences), or let it go.  After the midterm elections, there will be less pressure for the Republicans to do the somewhat right thing (or at least, not do so much of the wrong thing right there where everyone can see them).

      "Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve." George Bernard Shaw

      by Shygetz on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 08:34:15 AM PDT

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      •  but to filibuster (none)
        We need 41 votes, and I don't think Roberts's views -- so long as they remain relatively unexpressed -- will peel off enough Dems from the Gang of 14.

        Lots of SCT judges have minimal federal experience before being confirmed -- O'Connor and Rehnquist had none, Souter had about a minute's worth.  Whizzer White had none.  Etc.

        "Any content-based regulation of the Internet, no matter how benign the purpose, could burn the global village to roast the pig." -- ACLU v Reno (E.D. Pa. 1996)

        by Adam B on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 08:39:33 AM PDT

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