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View Diary: The Wrong Way To Protest Against The Slaughter In Gaza (172 comments)

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  •  However, the feelings the IP issue evokes (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gerald 1969, MPociask, cal2010

    are such that nothing surprises me any more.  In another diary, I asked the question for proof, outside of their charter, that Hamas leaders were not, above all else, pragmatic in their decisions.  After all, if both sides are pragmatic, then at some point, there should be enough incentive for both sides to sit down and negotiate.

    If, on the other hand, the sides are motivated solely by ideological zealotry, any attempt at resolution of the conflict is futile until both sides are willing to be pragmatic.  I thought this would be self evident but here is one response my question received:

    "The burden is on you to show that murderous, theocratic, Jew hating thugs with dreams of wiping Israel off the face of the Earth have ceased being murderous, theocratic, Jew hating thugs with dreams of wiping Israel off the face of the Earth."

    •  You still haven't answered the question (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Victor Ward, TheMagicJew
    •  I agree with some of your comment (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rduran, TheMagicJew

      I certainly think some people on both sides are motivated solely by ideological zealotry.  Your conclusion is correct as well, that attempts at resolution are futile until both sides are willing to be pragmatic.

      I believe that most on the Israeli side simply want to have a Jewish homeland and live in security that they can trust. I think there's certainly a small minority that are zealots.

      I am concerned that, on the Palestinian side, there are far more people who, based on their perception of religion, would never accept any compromise.  For Hamas, Israel is "Muslim land" that must be reconquered.  I don't believe they will ever renounce their charter.

      If that's true, you're right that resolution of the conflict is impossible and that means the only solutions are either someone winning the war or the world imposing a solution.  Forcing Hamas to de-militarize is part of the world's effort to impose a solution.

      •  let's stick to the issue of a "Jewish Homeland" (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cal2010, gerald 1969, CwV, orestes1963

        or "Jewish State".  The question is if, by Jewish, it is meant religiously or ethnically or both, since the nature of what it means to be Jewish can be quite foggy at times.  After all, in order to establish something, you need to be able to define or describe it.

        The second problem is what is meant by state or homeland and what it would mean for it to be established for perpetuity.  Does this mean, in spite of political or demographic changes, that the nation should remain Jewish (whatever that means) instead of reflecting those social, demographic, or political changes?  This is difficult to accomplish if you intend for that government to be democratic in nature.

        As you can see, the very question of Israel's being a Jewish state for perpetuity presents questions which need to be answered before progress can be made.  After all treaties are contracts between nations and the first part of any contract is definitions of all terms used in the contract

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