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View Diary: The Wrong Way To Protest Against The Slaughter In Gaza (172 comments)

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  •  really cough human shields cough (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PhilJD, cal2010, SCFrog

    read the fucking un laws about it
    human shields are no exuse to use unproprotionate force

    •  How is pointing out the fact that Hamas (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DeniseDenefyou, Victor Ward, JNEREBEL

      holds hostages "blaming the victim?"

      You're right.  Human shields aren't an excuse to use disproportionate force.  Which is why Israel takes unprecedented steps in informing residents to evacuate before committing to a strike against valid military targets.

      •  wait i heard in this thread (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cal2010, SCFrog

        it goes like
        you made your bed (electing hammas)
        now sleep in it
        Guilt by association

        •  Quote me. I dare you. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Victor Ward, JNEREBEL
          •  not sure what you try to say (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cal2010

            for sure my lack of english

            •  I never said Gazans were guilty by association (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Victor Ward, JNEREBEL

              for electing Hamas. Given that Gazan adults split 44-41 in the 2006 elections, the suggestion is absurd.

              •  no you said (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                cal2010, orestes1963

                hammas takes all of gaza hostage  (maybe even true)
                as human shield
                but IDF warns those hostages via sms
                if they have a charged mobile.
                so IDF did all it could before bombing the shit out of gaza
                no matter if you hit the hostage or the terrorist.
                see it just feels and looks like
                Guilt by association
                that why i thought to recycle your comment from above

                •  That's not what guilt by association means (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Victor Ward

                  Nor is Israel blaming the hostages for their predicament.

                  •  words mean difrent things to (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    cal2010

                    difrent people.

                  •  is collective punishment better (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    cal2010, CwV
                    •  No, it wouldn't be (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Victor Ward

                      because collective punishment presumes guilt by association, and I vehemently reject the notion that Israel is engaged in either.  

                      •  So all the women and children slaughtered in Gaza (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        gerald 1969, cal2010

                        are members of Hamas? How many degrees of separation does a Palestinian have to have from a Hamas fighter to be safe from direct attack from Israeli forces? Wife, child, first cousin, second cousin, aunt, uncle, friend, acquaintance, neighbor?

                        Why did Israel apply the Dahiya Doctrine in Gaza if it doesn't engage in collective punishment?

                        •  They are hostages of Hamas (0+ / 0-)

                          as I've stated repeatedly.

                          I have no intentions of entertaining conspiracy theories. You know where you can stuff that Dahiya nonsense.

                          •  so many confusing words or confused words (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            callmecassandra, orestes1963

                            is in the end
                            israel only trying
                            to rescue the hostages

                          •  Not CT. Operations Cast Lead and Protective Edge (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            gerald 1969, capelza, cal2010

                            have PROVED the Dahiya Doctrine is in full play.

                            http://www.haaretz.com/...
                            Oct. 5, 2008

                            In an interview Friday with the daily Yedioth Ahronoth, Eisenkot presented his "Dahiyah Doctrine," under which the IDF would expand its destructive power beyond what it demonstrated two years ago against the Beirut suburb of Dahiyah, considered a Hezbollah stronghold.

                            "We will wield disproportionate power against every village from which shots are fired on Israel, and cause immense damage and destruction. From our perspective, these are military bases," he said. "This isn't a suggestion. This is a plan that has already been authorized."

                            Colonel (Res.) Gabriel Siboni recently authored a report through Tel Aviv University's Institute for National Security Studies backing Eisenkot's statements.

                            The answer to rocket and missile threats from Syria, Lebanon and the Gaza Strip, he believes, is "a disproportionate strike at the heart of the enemy's weak spot, in which efforts to hurt launch capability are secondary. As soon as the conflict breaks out, the IDF will have to operate in a rapid, determined, powerful and disproportionate way against the enemy's actions."
                             

                          •  Yes, CT (0+ / 0-)

                            You've taken a couple throwaway paragraphs from an Amos Harel article from 6 years ago--and only two or three sentences of actual, sourced material (mostly jargon)--and built an entire mythology around it.  

                            Show me documents detailing this "doctrine."  Or admit you're full of it.

                          •  Israel retaliates with disproportionate power (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            cal2010

                            This is the reason for the current worldwide scorn and objections to Israel's indiscriminate bombing of Gaza. There is a Principle of Proportionality that makes what Israel is doing a war crime.

                            http://reut-institute.org/...
                            The Dahiyah Doctrine

                            The Dahiyah Doctrine refers to an IDF military strategy developed in the aftermath of the Second Lebanon war that focuses on using disproportionate air power and artillery against a seemingly new type of fighting model of non-state terrorist and guerilla organizations.

                            Background

                            The Dahiyah Doctrine arose in the aftermath of the Second Lebanon War and the perceived failure of the IDF to utilize its military advantage against heavily armed non-state members of the Resistance Network (primarily Hizbullah and Hamas.)

                            The IDF's traditional ‘use of force' doctrine was perceived to have been unsuccessful in preventing rocket fire on Israeli civilian areas as well as resulting in IDF casualties.1

                            The Dahiyah Doctrine developed out of the realization that the IDF was fighting against a new type of enemy which required new tactics. In this context, the heavy bombardment inflicted on the South-Beirut Dahiyah neighborhood during the Second Lebanon war seen as a relevant model for fighting against non-state terror or guerilla organizations.

                            Doctrine Characteristics

                            According to the Doctrine, the targets against which the IDF should focus disproportionate force may vary between villages from which rockets are fired,2 the political, social or religious strongholds of the Resistance Network,3 or the civilian infrastructure of the political entity within which the Resistance Network operates.4

                            Moreover, the military response envisaged by the Dahiyah Doctrine marks a departure from previous military IDF strategy.

                                Rather than use of firepower and quick maneuverability on the ground, the Doctrine adopts a strategy of massive firepower, primarily from the air.

                                Rather than hunting down individual missile launchers, the Doctrine focuses on punitively destroying the entire area from which rockets are fired.

                                Rather than seeking to achieve decisive victory, the Doctrine focuses on deterring the enemy via considerations of cost effectiveness, and hopes the threat of massive economic and physical destruction to infrastructure will drive a wedge between members of the Resistance Network and the local population.

                            Sources

                            Interview with Gadi Eisennkot, YNET, 10/03/08.

                            Amos Harel, Ha'aretz, 10/05/2008

                            Gabriel Siboni, INSS Paper: Disproportionate Force: Israel's Concept of Response in Light of the Second Lebanon War, 10/2008

                            Yossi Kuperwasser, INSS Paper: Objective: Hizbullah (Hebrew) 10/2008

                            Zaki Shalom, INSS Paper: The IDF's New Response Policy vis-à-vis Hizbollah: How Viable is it? 10/2008

                            Giora Eiland, INSS Strategic Assessment Target: Lebanon 11/2008

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