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    •  No, the President would say: (58+ / 0-)

      "The United States may have contributed to political conditions that caused some folks to be murdered".

      "To take another person's life from the bench is no better than to take another person's life from the street"

      by commonmass on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 11:01:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yep, he plain folks.... (29+ / 0-)
        Propaganda Critic: Special appeals > Plain folks
        Plain Folks

        By using the plain-folks technique, speakers attempt to convince their audience that they, and their ideas, are "of the people." The device is used by advertisers and politicans alike.

        America's recent presidents have all been millionaires, but they have gone to great lengths to present themselves as ordinary citizens. Bill Clinton ate at McDonald's and confessed a fondness for trashy spy novels. George Bush Sr. hated broccoli, and loved to fish. Ronald Reagan was often photographed chopping wood, and Jimmy Carter presented himself as a humble peanut farmer from Georgia.

        Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

        by divineorder on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 11:17:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What a cool idea for a website (22+ / 0-)

          I didn't know about it, and I think that being aware when propaganda techniques are being used is probably the most important issue facing the continued "democracy" of America.

          Do you know if the site (or another) also has suggestions about what to do about it, other than just "calling it"?

          I recently wrote a diary trying to expose propaganda that I saw on Fox, and it didn't seem to attract much interest.  Basically Fox has given their viewers the impression that there is a video out there somewhere which shows Brown "charging" the police (and therefore acting in a way that merited being shot them).  It's a load of bull, of course, but if you are a viewer and you trust Fox, you got that impression from their reporting.  And it was shared over 1600 times on Facebook, and over 500 times on twitter, so it definitely made an impression on the Fox community.

          Perhaps it was my writing, I don't know, but I think most folks find the discussion of propaganda, especially on Fox, rather boring.  But the sad reality is that this stuff is actively brainwashing our fellow citizens, and those with wealth and power have a long history of using it to get common people to essentially be indifferent to abuses against others in their own class.  

          I think we have to step up our game and figure out how to more actively and effectively fight these right-wing lies.

          If a small minority of people is now stealthily ruling what was previously a democratic country, and "the people" don't seem to realize it, should anyone bother to tell them?

          by Older and Wiser Now on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 12:35:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Fortunately the Right Wing noise machine (7+ / 0-)

            is doing a fairly good job of driving their children away, according to polling on the various issues that the RWNM screams about.

            And is useless for recruiting new adults in significant numbers. They are just reassuring the True Believers that everybody they hate is that evil.

            Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

            by Mokurai on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 09:48:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Unfortunately, the RW noise machine validates (6+ / 0-)

              racism, resentment, fear and hatred, by providing just enough misinformation to reinforce those tendencies. It's a large part of why we are more polarized than ever, and why there is so much unrelenting anger and hate.

              I never discount the power of Fox and hate radio to continue causing immense damage to this country.

              "We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few. But we can't have both." - Justice Louis Brandeis

              by flitedocnm on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 01:02:05 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Have you not seen the Daily Show or Colbert? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar, Maia Pleiades , lrganassi

            They've built their shows on Roger Ailes' RW propaganda machine (AKA FOX), while also taking on occasional CNN, MSNBC and MSM shortcomings as well. IMHO the RW's success and indeed their genius was tying God, country, the GOP together with FOX as its mouthpiece like some holy trinity + FOX that cannot be separated.

            If you're a Christian then you're a "true" American, because FOX preaches incorrectly that the US of A is a Christian nation created by our Christian founding fathers (they weren't, but why nitpick with facts?), so you're unlike those Others in our great Christian country:  you know, the Christian Democrats and liberal Christians, let alone the truly un-American non-Christians, not to mention the current FOX villains, the immigrants (only Native Americans are "true" Americans, but whatever). Those Others aren't "real" Americans. Why do FOX viewers believe this? Because FOX preaches this narrative every day.

            So ... if you question, say, the GOP's anti-Obama initiatives, they say you're attacking their Christian beliefs, their American way. If you challenge, say, their anti-gay marriage initiatives, they say you're attacking their Republican beliefs (even though it literally COUNTERS their beliefs in "small gov't"), their American way. And if you criticize, say, the NRA's misinterpretation of the second amendment, they say you're attacking their Conservative Christian, Republican, 'Murican values. FOX ties them together so their viewers develop an unbreakable belief in this God/country/GOP trinity. Why do FOX viewers believe this? Because FOX preaches this narrative EVERY DAY.

            No other network bangs the Christian/Republican/jingoistic drum like FOX does, in practically every show, creating the myth that the other networks are simply not as Christian/Republican/Real 'Murican as FOX, which means that anyone NOT like them must be ANTI-'MURICAN, just like our president! Why do FOX viewers believe this? Because FOX demonizes The Other and ratchets up its viewers' fear of The Other EVERY GODDAMN DAY. That is FOX's mission, that is its standard operating procedure, and that is its raison d'etre.

            It has worked so well that if you question a FOX viewer about something that you can prove is factually wrong, they will question your patriotism, your faith, and whatever they can because you're not just questioning the FOX tidbit, you're questioning their God/country/GOP trinity + FOX as their official spokesnetwork.

            •  Hi Kenny, yes I have, I love them (0+ / 0-)

              Though I'm pretty sure I've heard one or both of them say that calling out hypocrisy is where they find the gold regarding comedy.

              I don't know if I chose my words poorly, but what I was really trying to say is that I think propaganda is POISON and I want to stop "putting up with it cuz free speech".  Close to half of the country is swallowing the LIES hook, line, and sinker, and those folks vote.  Deception is morally wrong and can literally destroy our democracy.  I want it to stop, but I'm not sure how best to do it.  It seems like a lot of other posters are relatively apathetic about this particular issue; maybe they are smarter than I and have already concluded that there is NOTHING we can do ...  but that is such a depressing thought to me that I'm having trouble accepting it.

              If a small minority of people is now stealthily ruling what was previously a democratic country, and "the people" don't seem to realize it, should anyone bother to tell them?

              by Older and Wiser Now on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 08:14:17 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  In 'Sleepers' (0+ / 0-)

          The Big Brother dictator always posed with his dog. I see you left out Obama. I don't think he had much more than a million. Anyway a mere million isn't much anymore. Only a rough guess but today a million would equal about 250K in 1970.

      •  I thought we only (11+ / 0-)

        tortured "folks"(?).

        ... like tears in rain

        by bladerunner on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 12:54:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, he has learned well from his predecessor. (7+ / 0-)

        Mistakes were made. Duh.

        So where is the acknowledgment of responsibility? crickets

    •  The coup had nothing to do with the current... (5+ / 0-)

      ...situation in Honduras.  This can be proved experimentally, by comparison with El Salvador.

      It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

      by Rich in PA on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 11:03:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "Support" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, Tony Situ

      The only "support" the US offered to the coup was not cutting off aid after it happened.  Would you prefer that we had cut off aid?  Not everything that happens in this hemisphere is because of US machinations.

      •  Let's wait a few years and see what comes... (25+ / 0-)

        ...out about U.S. involvement before the coup. Plenty of times in the past, there was denial about what critics claimed U.S. had done and was doing, only to discover later the critics had been right.

        We do know that aid didn't just not get cut off after the coup but got expanded, along with the U.S. military base there that dates to the days when the CIA was running the contras from Honduras into Nicaragua in the 1980s.

        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 12:34:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sure... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar, Tony Situ

          ... okay, instead of saying the US supported the Honduras coup, say instead, "I speculate that it's possible that the US supported the Honduras coup, on account of the fact that there have been previous instances in which the US was initially thought not to be involved in something, but it turned out it was."  By that logic, maybe ISIS is actually the CIA?

          •  I speculate based on a degree emphasizing... (17+ / 0-)

            ...Latin American studies and extensive experience in Central America and the Caribbean, once denoted rather undiplomatically as "America's lake."

            Unlike your statement that the U.S. did not support the coup, I didn't make a flat-out claim that it did.

            Rather I suggested that it might be wise to withhold judgment in the light of history in the region (where hundreds of thousands of people have died as a result of U.S. direct and indirect interventions) and not to gullibly accept the denials of institutions that have lied about their activities there in the not-so-distant past.

            Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

            by Meteor Blades on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 02:14:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  how many years must pass before you clear (0+ / 0-)

              President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton of orchestrating the coup?  Ten?  Twenty?  Fifty?  Eighty?  How much time must pass before you finally have it in you to reject this particular CT?

              CTs from right wingers are immediately rejected by this site's front pagers, but CTs from the Chomsky left are given an eternity of "speculation" by the same site's front pagers. smh

            •  BTW, your degree in Latin American Studies (0+ / 0-)

              should have taught you that there have been plenty of coups in Latin America that had nothing to do with the US.  The Chomsky left has this warped version of American Exceptionalism, where the US is the source of all the world's ills, where the US orchestrates everything "bad" that goes on in the world, where other countries are assigned very little responsibility for what goes on in their own borders.  

              Obama orchestrates coups in Ukraine, Honduras, Egypt, according to the Chomsky left, because in their eyes the world revolves around the US.  They need to put down their American Exceptionalism and realize that not everything is about the US.  Sometimes things append around the world independent of US orchestration, as hard as that may he for the Chomsky left to believe.  

        •  So you have no evidence of the purists' allegation (0+ / 0-)

          that Obama/Hillary orchestrated a coup in Honduras (via Lanny Davis, right? That's what the purist CT was back when the coup happened), yet you're saying we should wait years and years for evidence to show that Obama/HRC did that coup.  And when such evidence is not forthcoming, that only means that the evidence has yet to be revealed, and that we should wait even more years for it, right?
          LOL  And you're a front pager too, that's really disappointing.

          I recall that one of the leaders of the coup, when Obama did not endorse it, called President Obama the Honduras equivalent of the n-word in the press.  And the wife of the ousted leader fled to the US embassy for protection against the coup leaders.  You really think the US backed the coup?  The burden of proof is on you.  There's plenty of evidence that the US did not orchestrate or endorse the coup, zero evidence that it did.  Well, the burden of proof is on those making the accusation.

          And while you'll likely dismiss this as lies, I'll just go ahead and post this link and leave it to you to disprove it
          Obama Tried To Stop Honduras Coup

          I thought this was a realty-based site.  But we see a front pager, yourself, essentially holding out the possibility of CT with no evidence to back it up. smh

      •  if we touched it, it's forevermore our fault (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dunsel, jpmassar
        Not everything that happens in this hemisphere is because of US machinations.
        "Irreversibly contaminated" seems to be the standard that the US - and the rest of the Western world - is held to: if we were ever involved, then everything that happens afterward is our fault, even after decades of independence.  Nobody - except us - has any agenda other than universal and unconditional peace and love.  Cortez brainwashed people into hating the Aztecs just so he could destroy them all in the end.

        Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

        by Visceral on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 01:08:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If you weren't an Aztec (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          you would have to have been crazy not to hate and fear them.  They engaged in genocide because they thought the sun would go out if they didn't.

          Warren/Grayson 2016! Yes We Can!

          by BenFranklin99 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:09:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  oh, I agree completely (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            I was trying to paraphrase the mentality I see applied to Latin American politics, especially where the US is concerned.  We've done a lot of bad things down there but I find it impossible to believe that there's no bad blood that wasn't nurtured by us: the old hates and fears always get absorbed into the new ones, which is why the new ones are so often bigger and bloodier than the old ones.

            Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

            by Visceral on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:18:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Not only the support, (13+ / 0-)

        The maquila industry in Honduras with ceo in New York, California, etc. did not want an increase in the minimum wage.
        The majority of Latinamerican contries were in favor of Zelaya. USA (Hillary Clinton) send the crook Lanny Davis to sell his soul to the devil and help the coup send Zelaya out. Is hard to believe the USA is not in every thing the latin american try to do or not to do.

        USA has been in Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Cuba, Mexico, Chile, Bolivia, Uruguay , Paraguay, Brazil, Argentina...y the lates is trying to kill Maduro, and do not forget the American base.

        Please remember the "School of the Americas" the gave us so many terrorist....

        In last Salvador's elections, we were bombard of lies from the USA extreme right, the cuban monigote of Marco Rubio and Newspapers as Washington Post and The Wall Street who let them use their editorial spaces. We have to wait basically for the approval of the USA ambassador even thought the international observer qualified our election as trasparent.

        Please do not take this personal, but the USA  the IMF, THE NEOCONS they have a lot to do with almost everything that is wrong in the planet.

        •  Throughout history (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          world powers have dominated every single other nation on earth in any way that benefited them.  The US is no exception.

          Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Noam Chomsky states that nations are not benevolent except unto themselves.  To believe otherwise is a bit naive, no?

          Save a child's life. Please sign and share. Save a child's life. Please sign and share.

          by kmfmstar on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 03:11:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Our nation is benevolent (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar, devis1, cybrestrike

            to only 1% of ourselves.  To the rest of us, not so much.

            Warren/Grayson 2016! Yes We Can!

            by BenFranklin99 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:18:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Same old, same old, then? So we just toss up ou... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Same old, same old, then? So we just toss up our hands at the murder of children? Just because some of us aren't callous doesn't mean we're naive.

          •  Power Doesn't Corrupt (0+ / 0-)

            This is an old saw that almost never gets challenged when someone brings it up. It's really too bad. A large part of the problem is that word "corrupt." On it's own it's entirely vacuous. It has no meaning or value. When examined, that statement typically means, "Once people are in a position of influence, they use it for their own ends instead of what I think they should use it for."

            Newsflash; everyone uses whatever influence they have toward their own ends, and that's not even wrong to do so, at least not in and of itself. For example, if my ends are making sure people have a safe place to sleep at night and enough food to eat, and I use a position of influence to do so, that's a good thing, regardless of what someone else intended that position to be used for.

            Putting people in a position of power is a quick and sometimes dirty way of seeing who they really are. Right now, the people who are in positions of power are the kind of people that send kids out to be raped and murdered because bureaucracy. I really want to see if anyone out there who says they care actually cares enough to do more than just talk.

            /Sigh. Where's Pancho Villa when you need him?

    •  Lets be Real Clear...... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, Metric Only, cybrestrike

      As the country Ran from Accountability after the bushco regime and not only have kept running but shifted All blame to the new Executive Administration while giving powerful control to even more of the extremism that rubber stamped what that bushco regime wanted, everything. As not only the Accountability but left everything on the table done under same!!!

      That's just the recent but follows the previous decades and policies of, such as those policies of the past that supported what has become the norm these kids are trying to free themselves from, add in our drug wants and needs!

      The 'O' didn't bring all that, we did "In Our Names!" and I've been witness to for many years, and a player in some of the bad policies like Vietnam!! As well as the blame game, political labels have nothing to do with what the majority of a society wants and does or doesn't do!!

      Look in the mirrors!!

      "If military action is worth our troops' blood, it should be worth our treasure, too; not just in the abstract, but in the form of a specific ante by every American." -Andrew Rosenthal 10 Feb. 2013

      by jimstaro on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 03:47:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  the indiscriminate murder of children (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, cybrestrike

      by our actions -- it's not just for Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Gaza anymore.

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 05:17:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Huh? (0+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:
      Hidden by:
      Between five and ten migrant children have been killed since February after the United States deported them back to Honduras, a morgue director told the Los Angeles Times.
      Five or ten? Six, seven? Which is it? In fact, how does a morgue director know which of the bodies that come into his morgue have recently been up in the United States? Are they carrying some kind of "recently deported" card? teenage girl told a border agent that she was afraid of being forced into prostitution...
      As if girls all over the world, including here, aren't forced into prostitution! There are girls in Africa who are held as slaves. There are kids all over Asia, India, Pakistan, etc. who are forced to work long hours every day for a pittance. Why are we falling over ourselves to take in people from Latin America while ignoring the starving, abused, raped, beaten and murdered children from countries that are NOT Latin American?

      In fact, why are people coming all the way through Central America and Mexico to get to the US instead of stopping and staying in other countries along the way? Doesn't Mexico have enough social service programs to make them want to stay there? Why aren't they heading south to some closer country in South America? Perhaps the immigration laws are actually enforced in those countries.

      As a progressive, I think we're getting the illegal immigration issue completely wrong. I care about people, but I think we're being duped. I work every day with immigrants, legal and otherwise. They are very knowledgeable about our immigration policies and our lack of enforcement for those who come here illegally. Most of the non-citizens I work with in construction work under the table. They know exactly what they're doing, including having kids here so they can get into Section 8 housing. They are working the system to get everything they can without paying income taxes. Three decades of reduced deportations have encouraged them to bring many, many more relatives here, and they tell people back home exactly what to say if they want to apply for asylum.

      I don't blame the folks who come here to benefit from our social programs and systems. But I don't want our public policy to continue to encourage people to break our immigration laws. It's not fair to those who are willing to abide by the rules and wait their turn.

      We need to help fix the problems in Honduras and elsewhere and not succumb to those who want to force us to prioritize certain illegal immigrants over all other potential immigrants from around the world.

      •  Break our immigration laws? (0+ / 0-)

        Those laws are the reason they are getting broken. The laws themselves are what need changing.

        A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

        by onionjim on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 04:42:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What do you want, open borders? (0+ / 0-)

          Gee, brilliant idea.

          Why is it that so many liberals don't understand what has been happening to blue collar American workers since the last big amnesty for illegal aliens in 1986. Their careers have been devastated, especially in construction fields.

          But hey, at least you'll get a cheaper kitchen remodel when you choose the construction company that hires illegal aliens to avoid all those pesky overhead costs like Social Security, Workers Comp taxes, Unemployment taxes and OSHA workplace standards.

          I believe in immigration. It's a bedrock of our country and has made us much stronger through diversity.

          I don't agree with public policy that not just tolerates, but encourages illegal immigration.

          •  Open borders. (0+ / 0-)

            Yes I'm fine with that. I am a machinist, have a small business and I don't feel threatened by agricultural workers or college grad engineers from India. I know that the economy is being choked by the RW corruption machine, and that's why jobs are in short supply. We need to strengthen the Dem legislature this fall. But the policy should be, open.

            A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

            by onionjim on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 04:22:12 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yeah, no one is threatening your job (0+ / 0-)

              They're only taking away construction jobs, yard work, home health care, and food prep. With the new "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" and the potential Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP), high tech careers will be destroyed as well.

              But hey, as long as your job is safe, let's just open the borders to the world's billions of people who are eager to "outcompete" Americans who believe in overtime pay, child labor laws, OSHA workplace protections, Social Security, Workers Compensation and Unemployment benefits. As long as your job remains safe, what do you care about the rest of us.

              •  I think you are way (0+ / 0-)

                overestimating the affect of immigration on jobs. The real numbers show that jobs are scarce because of the RW policy of "austerity."

                But hey if you like isolationist ideology fine.

                A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

                by onionjim on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 01:52:01 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Isolationism (0+ / 0-)

                  Isolationism in no way includes the USA having to take in whoever wants to come here. Isolationism is about not taking part in any international politics, "going it alone." Back to Us History 101 for you. Have you ever had to compete head to head with illegals for work? I have & I didn't like it. I got paid way, way less because of them.

                  •  You are competing with foreign (0+ / 0-)

                    workers now. A dollar a day or whatever. I don't need your history lecture. I can see you are wrong, and your isolationist ideology (which is not "isolationism") is a complete non sequitur in US employment issues. Immigrant workers built this country and they continue to be important to us going forward.

                    If you were competing with "illegals", don't you think that the companies that hired them should be held responsible? Its one thing to have some migrant workers harvesting crops. But hiring them in construction jobs and things like that to me is a bad idea. I think certain jobs should be performed by trained and experienced professionals. I worked in construction for 15 years.

                    A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

                    by onionjim on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 09:22:30 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Right now America's professionals (0+ / 0-)

                      benefit from cheap labor performed by illegal aliens taking construction jobs from American blue collar workers. Liberals can get the homes remodeled and their yardwork done cheaper by illegal aliens that if they used companies that hire Americans and pay Workers Comp, Social Security and all the other taxes that no one has to pay on illegal alien workers.

                      But when the government allows companies to undermine professional jobs with immigrants, then liberals might rethink this whole "They only take jobs Americans don't want" lie.

          •  What If (0+ / 0-)

            We just put an absolute limit on how many immigrants/refugees can come. The exact circumstances of the people could be prioritized. Real (not economic) refugees first, then legal immigrants & last illegal immigrants. Is that what we want? There has to be some limits on SOMEBODY. America has always had one of the most generous immigrant laws in the world but our country is full up. SOMEBODY has to be sent back. Real American Born Citizens are paying the price. Big Money Republicans use immigrants to beat down the pay for all Americans. Economic Immigrants are always claiming to be Political Refugees. Any rational system agreed on by the majority is fine with me but we need LIMITS; We need to get control of our borders. America cannot just blindly accept all comers; that is chaos.

      •  RWTP (0+ / 0-)

        Hey Kos! Yes it is dumb to say the parties are exactly the same on every issue - but it is dangerous and willfully ignorant to not acknowledge when their rhetoric is different but the ECONOMIC outcomes are the same.

        by Tool on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 05:12:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's the standard response (0+ / 0-)

          to anyone who understands the complexity of immigration issues we're facing and who wants to support American workers and our middle class.

          Or you could have just claimed I was racist. Another kneejerk response to those of us who are progressive but not dupes on immigration.

    •  These children are refugees and really NEED REFUGE (0+ / 0-)
      •  Exactly (0+ / 0-)

        We should be putting them into enclosed refugee camps run by the International organizations like the Red Cross. Big tent cities in the border states but supported by INTERNATIONAL funding and guarded by our National Guard at federal expense. The only way out of the camp is by being accepted by a member nation willing to take responsibility for them. They should not be allowed to roam freely across our nation as illegals.

        We help support these camps around the world -- look at Jordan and many other places that without our help would collapse under the financial strain. The refugees outnumber the citizens in Jordan by about 2 to 1 last I heard. This should continue until their home nations can be straightened out and made safe for their return or the refugee wishes to return at any time knowing the risks.

        •  Anything is Better (0+ / 0-)

          Than encouraging them to NOT solve the political chaos in THEIR countries because then, hey we can become Americanos & skip out on our own not so beloved country. WHERE IS THEIR PATRIOTISM FOR THEIR OWN COUNTRY? After all America is so much RICHER, so much EASIER TO LOVE. The international community has become accustomed to dumping it's problems on our doorstep. As it is they get one foot in the door towards the coveted American Citizenship. Just how committed to positive change in their own countries are they? After all if their side loses in their (not so) beloved homeland; Whopee we get to stay. Under this situation I have to question their commitment to liberating their homeland. The idea of making the international community step up is a good one. Europe, with it's high standard of living is under the same sort of pressures. It is so much easier to flee your tyrannical government than to take a stand for YOUR COUNTRY. If there is no solution, fair to all sides, the deluge of migrants from poor & badly governed countries to better ones will eventually swamp the better governed countries or force them into drastic measures.

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