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View Diary: Killing four people while white gets you probation (378 comments)

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  •  But what is the arrest rate for low income white (10+ / 0-)

    Americans?

      •  The Center for American Progress gives (29+ / 0-)

        the statistic (along with a number of other chilling stats) that African Americans are twice as likely to be arrested.

        http://www.americanprogress.org/...

      •  You're the one making the definitive conclusion (18+ / 0-)

        that race plays no factor, i thought you'd know.  All I know is that black juveniles are 3x more likely to be arrested than white juveniles. That black motorists are four times more likely to have their cars searched than white motorist.   I haven't seen any study that takes economics into account.  But from my experience, I don't think it accounts for the bias.  

        •  I'm curious how you "know" all this .. . (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          divineorder
          All I know is that black juveniles are 3x more likely to be arrested than white juveniles. That black motorists are four times more likely to have their cars searched than white motorist.
          I'm not disputing that it is true, for example NYC's "stop and frisk" policies totally are in accord with this, but in localities with very few minorities - but yet the police somehow manage to arrest a full complement of suspects - how everything fits together.
          •  Here you go - (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cambridgemac
            In Chicago, African-American and Latino motorists were more than four times more likely to have their vehicles searched during traffic stops last year than white motorists, even though officers found contraband in the vehicles of twice as many white drivers, according to the report. In 2004, by comparison, African-American and Latino motorists were nearly three times more likely to be searched than white motorists.
            http://www.chicagotribune.com/...
            “These findings demonstrate clear and significant racial disparities in the way in which motorists are treated once they have been stopped by law enforcement. The report found that blacks and Hispanics were roughly three times as likely to be searched during a traffic stop, blacks were twice as likely to be arrested and blacks were nearly four times as likely to experience the threat or use of force during interactions with the police.
            https://www.aclu.org/...

            I await your data.  

            •  Still no economics breakdown.... (0+ / 0-)

              Not jumping in to say anyone's wrong here, but I see this sub-thread remembering and then forgetting to account for the economic crosstabs.  From what I read, the studies aren't broken down enough to say definitively.

              Personally, I think both are a big factor, and I'm not sure which I even think comprises more of it.  However, I do know having poor whites argue with the poor of other races only serves the interests of the rich, because while we fight and blame each other for our station, they get to keep control of the system and keep us all oppressed to one degree or another using whatever leverage they have on us.  

              The rich don't care why each group of us can be oppressed, they just care that we don't band together to defeat their oppression.  So.....

              It is always better to have no ideas than false ones; to believe nothing, than to believe what is wrong. -Thomas Jefferson

              by Resmuglicrook Investigator on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 01:26:03 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  That's hard to believe. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        weezilgirl, AmazingBlaise

        You know so much else.

        I'm not paranoid or anything. Everyone just thinks I am.

        by Jim Riggs on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 04:28:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Why so condescending?? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gjohnsit, brn2bwild

          Just because I * do * know a lot, why dis me when I admit something that I don't know?

          •  Apologies to kos. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mikejay611

            This is an excellent diary.

            I'm not paranoid or anything. Everyone just thinks I am.

            by Jim Riggs on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 05:54:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yeah, I guess if one is not "white" (2+ / 1-)
              Recommended by:
              divineorder, gjohnsit
              Hidden by:
              mikejay611

              that is justification for smearing white people with complete impunity.

              Not sure if everybody finds that mindset to be so excellent, but whatever.

              •  It's not smearing "whites" at all ... (11+ / 0-)

                ...it's smearing white privilege.

                Do I need to explain the difference?

              •  Couldn't just quit (10+ / 0-)

                while you were ahead?  Now we get to the root of your hostility here and even as a white guy, I find that comment patently offensive.

                Do you honestly believe that Markos is "smearing" white people and that the reason is because he's not white?  In other words, Markos is some kind of "reverse racist?"  Really?  That's your implication and it does say a lot about racism but not with respect to Markos.

                Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

                by democracy inaction on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:00:41 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yes he is, this person did not get off (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  gjohnsit, brn2bwild

                  because he was white (There are HUGE number of white people in prison!!).

                  He got off because he was affluent and somehow appropriatately connected to the "powers that be".

                  •  You keep telling yourself that (6+ / 0-)

                    if it helps you sleep at night.  Meanwhile, those of us that actually understand why there is such racial disparity in the legal system will continue to work toward real justice while you snipe about how unfair white people have it.

                    Just disgusting.

                    Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

                    by democracy inaction on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:45:35 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I never said "how unfair white people have it" (0+ / 0-)

                      but yeah, if you have to invent lies about me, for god knows only what reason (it helps * you * sleep at night?), very well, carry on.

                    •  The point is (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Dr Swig Mcjigger, LilPeach, kay3295

                      if this kid's parents weren't rich, and he had to make do with a public defender, his ass would be in jail, not in some cushy rehab resort.

                      "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

                      by happy camper on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 07:26:13 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Maybe. (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Shawn87, kay3295, Cambridgemac

                        Maybe not. If he was a black kid? That's a definite! And THAT is the point...

                        Republicans are counting on the fact that fear makes people do stupid things. Like voting Republican.. ~ Ian Reifowitz

                        by mikejay611 on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 07:50:51 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  Yes exactly, he got a slap on the wrist (0+ / 0-)

                        because he was rich, not because he's white.

                        Seriously, I challenge any skeptical reader of this line of comments to just get their ass down to county court a couple of days a month (or year, or whatever) and observe that economically-down-in-the-dumps white people do not fare well at all.  NO ONE gets off because they are white (everything else being equal); that simply does not happen.  

                        •  It's both - two mints in one! (0+ / 0-)

                          The money is clearly a big factor, but there is also an effect of race. Being Black and poor leads to worse outcomes, and rich and White to better outcomes. Trying to assign the amount of variance each one accounts for is going to be hard, because there are so many other variables that effect the outcomes and all of them are also correlated in strange ways -- location, judge, facts of case, attorney, weather, jury or judge trial, mood of jury, mood of judge, intelligence of jury, etc. Nobody could deny both matter, at least in many contexts they do.  It is clear, though, as the earlier commenter stated, being White alone is not a get-off-free card. I have a very close friend (White) who got a DWI in the same jurisdiction -- exact same place -- same court building -- and that person was absolutely burned at the stake. There was no mercy. And that person did not even hurt anybody -- in fact they didn't even drive off private property they were parked on. The cops were watching, knew they were drinking, and they were just waiting for them to get in the car (it turns out it not a defense if you are on private property in Texas!). It simply is not true to say that Whites are not punished. There are many other factors at play, and money is just one of the bigger ones.

                          Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't.
                          Mark Twain

                          by phaktor on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 09:31:06 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  You're still at it? (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          weezilgirl, burlydee, Cambridgemac
                          NO ONE gets off because they are white (everything else being equal); that simply does not happen.
                          First of all, not everything is equal.  And it does happen all the time.  White people "get off" simply because they are white, they avoid getting pulled over/arrested in the first place because they are white compared to the black experience in America.

                          That is unless you believe that the percentage of white people that get pulled over/arrested being far lower than their percentage of the populace and that the percentage of black people that get pulled over/arrested being far higher than their percentage of the populace is because black people are just more criminally inclined than white people, though you're starting to convince me that you do.

                          Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

                          by democracy inaction on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 10:23:27 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  that simply does not happen (0+ / 0-)

                          Wow.
                          That's one of the most ignorant statements I've ever seen online.  

                    •  It was in the court ruling! (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      weezilgirl, Roadbed Guy

                      He got off because his parents were rich. Are you saying they lied in the court ruling?

                      "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                      by gjohnsit on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 08:55:03 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  My classes were made up of over 50% blacks. (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    democracy inaction, Wee Mama, kay3295

                    "S U B STA NT I A L R A C IA L N A T I O NA L P I C TU R E :  
                    The American prison and jail system is defined by an entrenched racial
                    disparity in the population of incarcerated people. The national
                    incarceration rate for whites is 412 per 100,000 residents, compared to 2,290
                    for African Americans, and 742 for Hispanics.9
                     These figures mean that 2.3%
                    of all African Americans are incarcerated, compared to 0.4% of whites and
                    0.7% of Hispanics.
                    TABLE 1 – TABLE 1 – Racial  and Ethnic Rates of Incarceration Rates of Incarceration
                    RACIAL/ETHNIC GROUP RACIAL/ETHNIC GROUP RATE PER 100,000 RATE PER 100,000
                    White 412
                    Black 2,290
                    Hispanic 742
                    While these overall rates of incarceration are all at record highs, they fail to
                    reflect the concentrated impact of incarceration among young African
                    American males in particular, many of whom reside in disadvantaged
                    neighborhoods. One in nine (11.7%) African American males between the
                    ages of 25 and 29 is currently incarcerated in a prison or jail. 10 Moreover, the
                    uneven geographic distribution of incarceration in communities of color
                    means that the effects of this situation radiate beyond the individual to the

                     Except as otherwise noted, all incarceration data presented in this report are from Paige M.
                    Harrison and Allen J. Beck, Prison and Jail Inmates at Midyear 2005, Bureau of Justice
                    Statistics, 2006, p. 11
                    10 William J. Sabol, Todd D. Minton, and Paige M. Harrison, Prison and Jail Inmates at
                    Midyear 2006, Bureau of Justice Statistics, 2007, p. 9
                    10 "

                    "When it's over, I want to say: all my life I was a bride married to amazement." Mary Oliver

                    by weezilgirl on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 10:26:01 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  You just tipped your hand, weakening, at best, (4+ / 0-)

                whatever constructive comments you may have previously made on this thread.
                Oh, and Kos did not smear white people with complete impunity.  YOU impuned him.

                If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when? Rabbi Hillel the Elder, Ethics of the Fathers. Corporadeus

                by Floyd Blue on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 07:45:48 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  And rightfully so (0+ / 0-)

                  he essentially claimed that white people could get away with murder simply because they were white.

                  That is absolute bullshit.

                  Because if it were true, why was Jeffrey Dahmner convicted of murder, incarcerated, and then killed by other white people while in prison?

                  Huh? Why exactly??

                  •  You seem not to understand (0+ / 0-)

                    how proof works.
                    Having one or 200 white people convicted for murder does not prove that white people don't get off scott free.  It only proves that some white people get convicted.  The issue is one of probabilities.  
                    Here try this:
                    I know two Jews who survived the concentration camps.  Therefore, Hitler did not kill Jews in concentration camps.
                    Get it?

              •  oh noes (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Shawn87, mt41w

                anti-white discrimination!  Gimme a break.  You're trying to turn this into just a matter of money.  You're allowed to make an unsubstantiated claim re convictions, but demand sources when someone makes a claim re arrests.
                Don't whine about people calling you out for being a whitesplaining jerk when you're acting like one.  

                you can shit on my face but that doesn't mean I have to lick my lips

                by red rabbit on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 08:05:54 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Again, I never claimed anti-white discrimination (0+ / 0-)

                  quite the opposite, I just pointed out the exact opposite - the pro-white discrimination is not warranted.

                  Sure, statistically speaking across society white people unquestionably fair better in the criminal justice system.  That is a huge problem that needs fixing with all urgency.  However, it is equally egregious to claim in any individual case (with no evidence whatsoever presented that specific racial factors relevant to the case at hand kicked in) that being white got this person, or any other person off.

                  An analogy might be that statistically speaking, people eating McDonalds' food each day die earlier than people who don't.   But despite that, it would be incorrect to point to any particular person who ate McDonalds' food each day and say with all certainty "eating McDonalds' food killed him (or her)" - the point being that extrapolation from population based statistics to individual cases is a tricky endeavor, and really shouldn't be done with such carelessness.  Now I get how that would be all A-OK if this were the Huffington Post, but for a "reality based website" - it seems, really really puzzling and inappropriate, even.

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