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  •  And BTW, your glee over this matter is disgusting. (5+ / 0-)
    •  Not as disgusting as the gung ho (6+ / 0-)

      USA! USA! bullshiters.

      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 05:46:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What are you talking about. The immediate (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gooderservice

        threat is to the inhabitants of the region.  BTW, humanitarian aid would be useless once they've been slaughtered.

        "Because I am a river to my people."

        by lordcopper on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 06:36:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What the fuck are you talking about? (3+ / 0-)

          Please try to learn a little about the region.

          The immediate threat is to the inhabitants of the region
          This 'immediate threat' has existed and people have been being 'slaughtered' in large numbers by IS(ISIS) for about three years but no one in the US really cared until a few weeks ago.

          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 06:44:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Commitment, logic, and adequate knowledge (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            InAntalya, YucatanMan, Sandino

            don't hold much value for advocates of neo-empire.

            "Trust me... I've been right before." ~ Tea party patriot

            by Calvino Partigiani on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:15:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Nice quip, but short on truth. I opposed the (0+ / 0-)

              initial invasion of Iraq, ironically, because of logic.  I have no desire for empire.   However, that ship has sailed, and  we are where we are.  What's your solution to minimize the loss of life?

              "Because I am a river to my people."

              by lordcopper on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:22:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  What's yours? (3+ / 0-)
                What's your solution to minimize the loss of life?
                Is it just that 'we are where we are' so we should just bomb some more and hope that peace will emerge from bombs?

                The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                by InAntalya on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:29:54 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Don't stand by and allow a rag tag group of (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  aimeehs, gooderservice

                  idiots to commit mass murder.  As a former Marine, I would have relished the opportunity to participate in a mission with such a clear moral purpose.

                  "Because I am a river to my people."

                  by lordcopper on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:34:26 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'm sure you see it as "a clear moral purpose". (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    YucatanMan, Sandino

                    Servants of militaristic empires always do.

                    But the basis of US power around the globe is deeply, deeply, implicated in all manner of immorality, mass violence, weapons dealing, and death.

                    As someone who's thought about the wider world and the US' role in it, you are aware of that sordid history, right?

                    "Trust me... I've been right before." ~ Tea party patriot

                    by Calvino Partigiani on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:38:06 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  And cowards can always find a justification (0+ / 0-)

                      not to put themselves at risk.

                      "Because I am a river to my people."

                      by lordcopper on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:41:04 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I'm sure they can. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Sandino

                        You know, lordcropper, I actually really do appreciate the fact that you are posting your thoughts here.

                        You give voice to an attitude about what you think is the appropriate military role for the US in the Middle East - specifically Iraq in this case - and you speak as someone who has direct experience in promoting that US military role.  

                        It is valuable and informative to hear your ideas about what you think the role of the US military should be, and how you understand and justify that role.

                        "Trust me... I've been right before." ~ Tea party patriot

                        by Calvino Partigiani on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:46:28 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  You're wrong. I've been a soldier, and I've seen (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          aimeehs, gooderservice

                          combat.  I harbor no illusions that military power can solve all problems, or the U.S. Govt has all the answers (or even has honest intentions).  But I do realize that the only way to deter a murderous group like ISIS is by killing them.  That's the only thing that will stop their rampage.

                          "Because I am a river to my people."

                          by lordcopper on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 08:01:56 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Not sure what in my comment you're responding to, (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sandino

                            specifically.  

                            I simply agreed with your previous claim, and made an observation that it is informative to hear your views.

                            "Trust me... I've been right before." ~ Tea party patriot

                            by Calvino Partigiani on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 08:11:04 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I was responding to this (0+ / 0-)
                            You give voice to an attitude about what you think is the appropriate military role for the US in the Middle East - specifically Iraq in this case - and you speak as someone who has direct experience in promoting that US military role.  

                            "Because I am a river to my people."

                            by lordcopper on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 08:15:57 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  I don't see any indication that you are (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Sandino

                        putting yourself at risk.

                        The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                        Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                        by InAntalya on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:48:17 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Hard to know on a blog. (0+ / 0-)

                          I've seen combat, I didn't fold then, and I have bullet holes as a souvenir (flesh wound). I'm sold old and injured (ACL) they wouldn't want me now.

                          "Because I am a river to my people."

                          by lordcopper on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:54:48 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Next month I will probably be in (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Calvino Partigiani, Sandino

                            areas of Syria controlled by Syrian Kurds to work on humanitarian aid projects.

                            Where will you be?

                            Trying to fuck with me from the comfort of you home?

                            The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                            Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                            by InAntalya on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:58:07 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Actually, I will have forgotten you before I (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            aimeehs

                            finish this glass of scotch.  Goodnight.

                            "Because I am a river to my people."

                            by lordcopper on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 08:03:36 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I understood that it was the scotch talking (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sandino

                            quite a while ago.

                            And most probably cheap scotch too by the intellectual level of your comments.

                            The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                            Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                            by InAntalya on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 08:08:18 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Another very common ideological belief (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            InAntalya, Sandino

                            of supporters of war and empire is that only military attacks count as "doing something".  I've seen it and commented on it untold times here on DK.  If it doesn't involve the use of military violence, it means you are "standing by", "doing nothing".  

                            It gets repeated all the time, and is revealing of the constrained mindset underlying militaristic approaches: only the use of military violence counts as taking action or taking risks.  

                            It's a widespread form of indoctrination in the US of A.

                            "Trust me... I've been right before." ~ Tea party patriot

                            by Calvino Partigiani on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 08:07:01 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I think you are giving some too much credit. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Calvino Partigiani, Sandino

                            For many it's just a matter of them really liking things that go BOOM.

                            The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                            Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                            by InAntalya on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 08:10:45 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Could be. In any case, (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            InAntalya

                            I hope you have a productive and safe journey.

                            And please keep us updated!

                            "Trust me... I've been right before." ~ Tea party patriot

                            by Calvino Partigiani on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 08:14:14 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  What does opposing ISL have to do with "empire"? (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            aimeehs, jdsnebraska

                            Can you stop with the Chomsky buzzwords?
                            If anything, it's ISIL that's trying to establish an empire in the Middle East.  I know Chomskyites, whenever the US is in any conflict, have a knee-jerk tendency to side with the entity the US is in conflict with, but ISIL is the evil ones here.  ISIL is the entity trying to establish empire in this case.  Not the US.

                          •  Thanks for joining the conversation! (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sandino

                            And sorry that my comments contain what sound like meaningless "buzzwords" to you.

                            You truly do misunderstand me, though, if you believe that I am siding with ISIL here, in a knee-jerk fashion or otherwise.

                            Indeed, I'm not sure how you got that impression.

                            Can you explain to me how anything I've said represents taking sides with ISIL?

                            "Trust me... I've been right before." ~ Tea party patriot

                            by Calvino Partigiani on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 08:54:14 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  I wonder, why you haven't gone to Syria? (0+ / 0-)

                    And I also wonder, how much do you know about the battles between the Syrian Kurds and ISIS, etc. that have been going on for such a long time?

                    The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                    Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                    by InAntalya on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:40:36 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  By definition, militaristic empires bring mass (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gjohnsit, dharmasyd, Sandino

                death.  If you mean this:

                I have no desire for empire.   However, that ship has sailed, and  we are where we are.
                that is, if you see that the US is an empire, but you don't support empire, then the first, most effective thing you can do to begin reducing the loss of life is oppose that empire, not accept it as a somehow a implacable fact of the universe.

                "Trust me... I've been right before." ~ Tea party patriot

                by Calvino Partigiani on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:34:55 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Does that mean the threat no longer exists? (0+ / 0-)

            Because U.S. policy in the region has been irresponsible, are you say we should just wash our hands and ignore these atrocities?  Exactly what is your point with regard to stabilizing the situation?

            "Because I am a river to my people."

            by lordcopper on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:18:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The US just washed its hands and (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sandino

              ignored these atrocities for a long long time.

              Why do you believe that the US cares now and wants to stabilize the situation - with bombs?

              I have written my position in other comments. If you are interested, read them.

              The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
              Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

              by InAntalya on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:24:59 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You're repeating yourself. Now that we are (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gooderservice

                interested, you're now suggesting that stopping future atrocities isn't worthwhile?  That makes absolutely no sense.  

                "Because I am a river to my people."

                by lordcopper on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:38:11 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I am stating that stopping current and future (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sandino

                  atrocities by committing atrocities is wrong.

                  But you seem to like the idea - from the comfort of your home.

                  The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                  Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                  by InAntalya on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:43:45 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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