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View Diary: 'An Islamic caliphate armed with US weapons' (161 comments)

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  •  I note that there are reports that increasing (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder, AoT, Utahrd, BYw, JVolvo

    numbers of jihadists are originating in the US and EU.  In addition to having Western passports and citizenship, some of them more than likely have had some degree of military training.  Assuming captured weapons are beyond the abilities of ISIS recruits may not be a good idea  

    •  The big issue there is upkeep (0+ / 0-)

      and parts. Parts for US weapons are expensive, much ore so than bullets for an AK. And where are they even going to get them? Other than some of the more simple weapons they'll run out of supplies for most of that stuff fairly quickly. The artillery is probably the only thing that will be useful in the long term.

      My preferred pronoun is 'They', what's yours?

      by AoT on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 09:27:59 AM PDT

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      •  just found this: (9+ / 0-)

        http://www.juancole.com/...

        scroll down to find this:

        "The powerful but supposedly moderate Yarmouk Brigade, reportedly the planned recipient of anti-aircraft missiles from Saudi Arabia, was intended to be the leading element in this new formation. But numerous videos show that the Yarmouk Brigade has frequently fought in collaboration with JAN, the official al-Qa‘ida affiliate. Since it was likely that, in the midst of battle, these two groups would share their munitions, Washington was effectively allowing advanced weaponry to be handed over to its deadliest enemy. Iraqi officials confirm that they have captured sophisticated arms from ISIS fighters in Iraq that were originally supplied by outside powers to forces considered to be anti-al-Qa‘ida in Syria."

        So they need not capture weapons as our ham handed policies appear to be handing them over along with munitions and spare parts

        •  Handing them over (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AoT

          with a wink and a nod, and a user's manual. Heck even ISIS tweeted out a joke that the US would have to honor its warranty on parts for the equipment they have.

          The fact is that simple capture isn't enough anymore. These aren't Napoleonic cannons. To operate these systems requires a sophisticated supply line, and not just once, but continuously.

          … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

          by mosesfreeman on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:30:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Artillery won't be useful for long (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AoT

        I've heard that they have largely 20 and 23mm autocannons, technically a direct fire weapon. If that's the case, their ammo needs will be nearly exponential, if they keep attacking.

        I haven't heard much about their use of true artillery, although they are alleged to have some. I'm guessing that their fire control will be marginal at best. The biggest worry I would assess would be desperation attacks on targets within their known range, thus Taqba.

        … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

        by mosesfreeman on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:36:04 PM PDT

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        •  It seems to me that their strongest weapon (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mosesfreeman, JVolvo

          is their ferocious fighting spirit. Whatever we might think of them, they show enormous tenacity and ruthlessness. The extra weaponry ISIS has acquired helps, of course, but it is the fighting spirit of the men that counts more. It reminds me a little of the Wermacht in Italy and North Africa in WW2. They were just astonishing in the resourcefulness and determination they showed over and over again. Also, in France late in 1944, the German troops were well aware of the rapidly weakening strategic picture, but half of all German military casualties occurred during the last 12 months of the war, even though materiel shortages were brutal. Bottom line is that badly led armies with poor morale are easily beaten just as we saw with the Iraqis recently. Well-led armies with enthusiastic troops can still be beaten but it's a pretty tough road.

          Voting is the means by which the public is distracted from the realities of power and its exercise.

          by Anne Elk on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:07:04 PM PDT

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          •  They definitely have that (0+ / 0-)

            as misguided as it is, although I doubt that it's half as deep as the morale of the Wehrmacht. My FIL was Wehrmacht.

            … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

            by mosesfreeman on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:49:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  no training (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mosesfreeman, Garrett, JVolvo

      they get their trainign there. The fear here is rather that with the returnees we acquire people here who have had training and experience of there. This could in the mid run bring deep trouble into the midst of europe.

      I have seen a number that 20 UK citizens per week are joining IS.
      I have also seen a number that the IS had its best recruiting month ever this summer with 7000 new recruits of which 1000 were foreign. In the same time, they lost about 700 at the frontlines by waterstreet´s countings. This means IS is strengthening, and not really waning under the US attacks.

      I find it totally wrong that everyone here fixates themselves exclusively on the military aspects of this. We can leave the military things to the military.

      IS is a political problem not a military one. The YPG and in some manner the assad´s regime demonstrate that under the right political conditions, IS is stoppable and defeatable. People here need to drop the testosterone talk and try engaging with the region in political terms. What makes the populations of the area embrace IS rule enough to allow them to sweep, as they did? What kind of a political future can anyone or a coalition of which the US would be part, offer to those people so that they would opt to fight for it, instead of for IS? just as an analogy: the world after WWII was planned for in the political circles of both winning worlds even while the Nazis were still marching triumphant. This allowed the effective reshaping of the world when the battle was won. Where is such a thing now? Has anyone any political imagination for a stabilized, cooperative MidEast? If none has it then people can go packing because they´ll be defeated.

      •  There is no imagination or plan (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        marsanges

        regarding brown people, except death, destruction, and a boot stomping their face forever.

        That's not on AIPAC's priority list.

        … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

        by mosesfreeman on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:58:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think it's a combination. (0+ / 0-)

        Of course, the political dimension is important, but I don't know what political actions might take place in Syria with over 190,000 people dead now. The situation in Iraq might be stabilized if the Iraqi government builds a less sectarian government and gives Sunnis a bigger role to play. Our brushback of ISIS is designed to buy more time for them to get organized, although it's hard to feel optimistic about that. The other front, of course, is supporting the Kurdish state, which is - to me anyway - a laudable objective.

        Voting is the means by which the public is distracted from the realities of power and its exercise.

        by Anne Elk on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:16:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Well said. US airstrikes can't touch this: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        marsanges

        Muslim youth from UK joining radicals in ME

        It is common to describe these young British radicals as ‘brainwashed’. But I dislike using that term because it far too easily absolves them of responsibility for their actions.

        They know only too well exactly what they are doing. They have consciously decided to immerse themselves in a blood-soaked narrative of vengeance and power, in which they will annihilate their enemies, destroy Western values and ensure the triumph of their perverted, totalitarian version of Islam.

        Young British Muslims have been drawn to radicalism for decades, but the involvement with the Islamic State marks a new departure, both in the savagery of its methods and its approach to recruitment.

        "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition /= GTFO" Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon + JVolvo

        by JVolvo on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 07:21:46 AM PDT

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        •  Desperate for belonging to something.. (0+ / 0-)

          It is necessary for a society to instill in its youth the idea that they are there for a national purpose, or a larger purpose to serve, and in return to be included in a great project for humanity. These youth have never been truly brought into any project which they can belong to in Britain; political, spiritual, economic or even basic social comfort. Britain is now in a panic about this, but it was predicatable since the fall of the Raj, when British attitudes toward Asians, South Asian, Middle Easterners and Far Easterners was patterned after the Colonial-Servant model, and never questioned at home.

          That is not brainwashing, it is reactionary politics, and Britain has created a whole lot of them. The US does its share as well, but at least we have a vocabulary for equality and full inclusion in our schools, and it plays out to a limited degree. Not good, but not absolutely horrible for young immigrants of color. Many first and second generation immigrants here DO make the first level of economic gains, and that at least gives hope that the other levels can be attained in the next generations.

          Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

          by OregonOak on Sat Aug 30, 2014 at 07:26:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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