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View Diary: Poll: White people a lot more likely than black people to think police treat racial groups equally (182 comments)

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  •  That is very "white" of you. (19+ / 0-)

    Your comment reeks of white privilege and racist assumptions that black folks who are harassed are not like you.  

    Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

    by TomP on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 07:56:43 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  And by that, I mean not like (16+ / 0-)

      you in that they must not be law abiding like you.  Your white skin gets you a lot in life, just as mine has done.

      The racial arrogance in your comment in amazing, as is your tacit support for police lynchings.  

      Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

      by TomP on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 07:58:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  But Madam. The people have no bread to eat. (6+ / 0-)

      The Republican motto: "There's been a lot of progress in this country over the last 75 years, and we've been against all of it."

      by Hillbilly Dem on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 08:35:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  My comment reeks of my reality (0+ / 0-)

      And my comment reeks of the reason the INEVITABLE ONE can't figure out how to have an opinion on Ferguson.

      I vote on MY reality not on YOUR reality.  My reality is a responsive police force from suburb to city to state to detectives to the courts.  If that is privilege, it is what it is, but you expect me to erase over 60 years of my own experience and put on another reality and why would I do that?  What is in it for me?  There are things I want to change but my local police are not on that list.  

      I don't like war but I also don't like crime.  I'm just giving you the world as it is from the eyes of the little old white ladies who do so know where and when to vote in November.

      •  AWESOME (17+ / 0-)

        Honest racism is so refreshing these days. You are a treasure.

        Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

        by moviemeister76 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 08:44:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What's in it for you? (5+ / 0-)

        Racism has done good by you, so if a few African Americans are lynched by the police, why should you give a shit?  

        My God have mercy on your sorry ass soul.  

        Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

        by TomP on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 08:46:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wow. Reading you today, you seem really hateful. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cryonaut, Victor Ward

          It's neither attractive nor useful, especially as he is giving you a very nice description of the way many people feel.

          And really, in Minnesota, what would you expect?

          None of what she's written makes her a racist or a "sorry ass sould". It makes her somebody who hasn't seen the problem and who doesn't understand it.

          Your response strikes me as an opportunity lost.

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 08:59:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I an not hateful. Just telling the truth about (5+ / 0-)

            white racism and the choice many whites make to be evil, to give up their humanity.  

            Yes, she is a racist.  And, yes, she has a sorry ass soul when she says, what's in it for me?

            Opportunity, may ass.

            It's time whites call out other whites for racism.  As a white person, I have a responsibility to do so.

            Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

            by TomP on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:01:31 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You are right (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TomP

              I still think she/he/it are talking like this to get a rise and get others to join the hateful fray.  This is my last post about it and I've learned not to play to this crap in the future.

              "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

              by cowdab on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:23:54 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Oh ffs (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mikejay611, Vita Brevis, TomP, CPL 1234

            You seriously want to go down as a racist apologist? What greenbell has written is racist as shit. Sure, the commenter is being honest, but it's still completely racist.

            Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

            by moviemeister76 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:01:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  OK. It's lost on me. I am honestly unable to see (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cryonaut, Victor Ward

              the racism in her comments.

              Ignorance?
              Sure.

              Maybe the difference is that I've spent a little time in Minnesota.

              LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

              by dinotrac on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:03:16 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It starts in the first comment (8+ / 0-)

                She's saying the reason why the police never pull her over is because she's never broken the law, except that one time she ran a stop sign. And she doesn't break the law because she had good parents who taught her right from wrong.

                The subtext is that black people have a high amount of interactions with the police because they are criminals who had bad parents. It's racism 101.

                Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

                by moviemeister76 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:07:07 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Could be, I suppose, but...in Minnesota, that's (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Victor Ward

                  probably just her experience.

                  Is there no room for her not to understand the problems faced by others without being a racist?

                  Insulated, perhaps, and not especially sensitive.
                  Maybe racist, but you are jumping to that conclusion based on mighty thin input.

                  LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                  by dinotrac on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:24:09 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Have you read her other comments (5+ / 0-)

                    She refers to President Obama as The INEVITABLE ONE.

                    And besides, I know she's racist. There's a reason I commented that her first comment gave me flashbacks to my childhood. My dad, who is a racist, talks exactly like that.

                    Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

                    by moviemeister76 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:27:06 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Hillary is the INEVITABLE ONE (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      cryonaut, Victor Ward

                      Sorry if people don't know who hasn't had a word to say on this issue but yes please do just live within your own narrative.  

                      I figure HRC being a woman of about my age from a suburb not so unlike mine, knows what I'm talking about.  I disagree with her on plenty, but she's not dumb enough to think you win elections by branding the typical life experience of white voters as racist.

                      I predict this will become clearer to you all when your bubble bursts in November and Democrats lose the Senate.

                      •  Oh my word (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        TomP, Vita Brevis, mikejay611

                        I should have remembered. I had forgotten how some folks here labeled her that.

                        I wonder if you realize how ironic your comment is, though. After all, I am quite sure Hillary knows enough not to piss off racist folks like you.

                        Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

                        by moviemeister76 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:18:27 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  it's not your "life experience" (4+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        moviemeister76, TomP, vpd4, stringer bell

                        you dumbass racist, it's your refusal to acknowledge or even attempt to understand that millions of your fellow citizens have much different experiences, they're not just making it up, and they have a right to the peaceful life that you enjoy.  Maybe, just maybe, it might sink through your dark soul that it's better for everyone when all citizens enjoy equal rights.    

                        you can shit on my face but that doesn't mean I have to lick my lips

                        by red rabbit on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:12:21 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  Well, it's reeking of privilege (7+ / 0-)

                    and greenbell has been made aware that it is, indeed, a privileged position.

                    Since she keeps insisting that her reality is the norm (or should be the norm) in spite of an overwhelming amout of evidence to the contrary on this very blog then, yes, it does cross the line into racism.

                    •  Yes, I can agree with that. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Victor Ward

                      And it might be racist.
                      And SHE might be racist.

                      Now that I know who "THE INEVITABLE ONE" is, I'll go back and re-read her comments to see if they change in that context.

                      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                      by dinotrac on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:49:03 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Maybe not exactly "racist" - maybe just "selfish" (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      TomP

                      certainly 'classist' and very 'conventional' -- with all the negative judgement that those characteristics invite: like

                      'small'
                      'sheltered'
                      'privileged'
                      'entitled'
                      'self satisfied'

                      also
                      'complacent' and 'complicit'

                      but not NECESSARILY "Racist"

                      Our British cousins have managed, and still manage, all sorts of incivility and injustice to their native-born, pale white 'chavvy urchins' and 'yobos' without any reference to race or religion, at all, at all.

                      And last I looked:  "Jock", "Paddy,"  Taffey and even "Abraham" were all as White as any Mayfair Lady.

                •  I went back and re-read that. (0+ / 0-)

                  And I wonder how much is in the comment and how much is in the eye of the beholder.

                  The repeated references to law-abiding do raise a red flag , and the question I would ask if we were conversing in person would be, "Why do you assume that that's true for everyone?"  

                  Cops have wives, girlfriends, mothers, grandmothers, daughters, nieces, etc..  Why would you hassle somebody who makes you think of your mom?

                  That might get me everything I need to know.  If not, I'd tell her about my very different experiences when I was younger and less socially acceptable.  I'd tell her what it's like having the cops treat you as the enemy.

                  What I'd listen for would be any expression of a generic "they" are not like a generic "us".  Number one on the list would be "the blacks".  I'm sure it's possible to do, but I've never heard that prhase used in ordinary conversation without a racist context.

                  But, as I said before, I'm very much a benefit of the doubt person.  I prefer not to assume the worst as its rarely useful to do so and often harmful.

                  LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                  by dinotrac on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 07:09:07 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Oh Please... (4+ / 0-)

                Putting aside your deliberate obtuseness,  I've spent some time there as well so let's not insult all the folks in Minnesota by allowing greenbell to speak for them or the other "little old ladies" there.

              •  The comments imply that since she (11+ / 0-)

                is law abiding, those abused by the police, are not. By Default. Oh and she's pissed that BHO is president (INEVITABLE ONE? Really?). The problem with ingrained racism is the apologists and enablers. The fact that you don't see it show that you're part of the problem, and being from Minnesota is a bullshit excuse.

                Republicans are counting on the fact that fear makes people do stupid things. Like voting Republican.. ~ Ian Reifowitz

                by mikejay611 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:10:34 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Is that who the INEVITABLE ONE is? (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  mikejay611, Victor Ward

                  I must not hang out in the right places.

                  As to being part of the problem, you're a better candidate than I am.  What's the saying? If you're not a part of the solution then you're part of the problem?

                  LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                  by dinotrac on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:26:25 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I have to disagree (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Vita Brevis, TomP, mikejay611, ChadmanFL

                    White people have a duty to call out fellow white folks who say racist crap. Remaining silent or trying to defend it not only lets black folks know they aren't welcome here, it further perpetuates something that is almost impossible to stop as it is.

                    Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

                    by moviemeister76 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:30:45 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  No, we don't have a duty to "call people out" (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      cryonaut, Victor Ward

                      We have a duty to do what we can, in ways both large and small, to make things better -- a step on the road to eliminating the problem as much as humanity will let go of it.

                      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                      by dinotrac on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:46:07 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Oh I see (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        mikejay611, TomP

                        So you actually are just fine with racists saying what they want here at DKos without any pushback from the rest of us. Fuck black folks, I guess.

                        Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

                        by moviemeister76 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:51:17 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Beats making things up. (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          cryonaut, Victor Ward

                          Not fond of reality, are you?
                          It's so damned limiting.

                          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                          by dinotrac on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:53:33 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Who's making shit up? (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            mikejay611, TomP

                            Not me. It's amazing that you have all these people in here pointing out she's being blatantly racist, but you are set to defend a racist to the end. Even going so far as to say white people shouldn't be calling out racists. No wonder there's so few people of color at this site, if this is what they have to face every damn day.

                            Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

                            by moviemeister76 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:56:01 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Absolutely you are. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            cryonaut, Victor Ward

                            Examples of you making stuff up:

                            So you actually are just fine with racists saying what they want here
                            I will grant you this:

                            If a racist got on here and said we have to stop using fossil fuels, I would be completely ok with that.  Wouldn't surprised if some racists have gotten on and done exactly that.  We just wouldn't know they're racists because curbing CO2 is not an issue that woujld reveal racism.

                            Fuck black folks, I guess.
                            You might just be expressing how you feel, but I suspect you're making up an outlook for me, an outlook that couldn't be further from the truth.
                            you are set to defend a racist to the end.
                            Nope.
                            Even going so far as to say white people shouldn't be calling out racists
                            Didn't say that, either.  I am happy to call out racists. What I said was something very different from that.

                            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                            by dinotrac on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:10:10 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Avoidance (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            TomP, mikejay611

                            Have you actually realized what she said was racist yet? Or are you still trying to figure that out?

                            Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

                            by moviemeister76 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:13:32 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Haven't gone back to re-read it yet. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            mikejay611, stringer bell

                            But I will.

                            Trying to work a bit --
                            and let state of mind ease up.

                            I'm feeling a bit confrontational right now, and that could lead me to see her posts exactly as I describe them as opposed to what they actually say.  That would defeat the purpose.

                            Can't avoid my personal biases, but can give it the best shot I can.

                            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                            by dinotrac on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:22:07 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  no time to re-read it... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            mikejay611

                            but lots of time to post comments defending it.  

                            you can shit on my face but that doesn't mean I have to lick my lips

                            by red rabbit on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:45:28 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  oh you're not defending a racist (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            mikejay611

                            well, other than the fact that all of your posts under her racist comment are defending her.  Other than that, totally made up.  Welcome to dino's alternate reality.  

                            you can shit on my face but that doesn't mean I have to lick my lips

                            by red rabbit on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:44:12 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  What it sounds like to me... (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          moviemeister76, TomP

                          n/t

                          Republicans are counting on the fact that fear makes people do stupid things. Like voting Republican.. ~ Ian Reifowitz

                          by mikejay611 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:54:34 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                  •  I don't see many suggestions at solving anything (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    TomP, Vita Brevis

                    from you either. Just a lot of defending the White status quo and POV from the little harmless old lady. My suggested solution would be to try and see the world through my eyes and where I come from. But that would legitimize it for you and the other privilege apologists here... This is not the first time you've come to the defense of an overtly racist POV, dinotrac. Starting to see a pattern. News flash: people that look like you still make up over 70% of the population here. What are y'all so afraid of really?

                    Republicans are counting on the fact that fear makes people do stupid things. Like voting Republican.. ~ Ian Reifowitz

                    by mikejay611 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:59:55 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  It's a hard thing that we've been trying to do (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      mikejay611, doc2

                      for years.

                      If I were sitting across from that lady, I would tell her about my experiences being harrassed by police.  I'd tell her that she's right about being law-abiding, but wrong to think that it's enough.

                      If I were sitting across from her, though, I would be in a much better position to tell if she's really a racist or if her experiences "color" her world in a way that has a racist effect, which is different.

                      If she's really a racist, you call her out and I, for one, have nothing more to do with her. Although, sigh, you can't really do that if she's a member of your own family. Then you are left to make sure your kids aren't poisoned by the spew -- and that's not easy.

                      If she's not really a racist -- and I'll admit to being more "benefit of the doubt" than most people -- there is room for talk and guidance.

                      On more of a policy level, I'm a great believer in police force that mirror the local populace as much as possible. Even more, I think cops should get out of there cars and get to know folks -- and get to be known.  I think it's harder to shoot people you know, and I think people who know you are less likely to assume the worst from the outset.

                      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                      by dinotrac on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:19:09 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Fair Enough. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        dinotrac, doc2

                        n/t

                        Republicans are counting on the fact that fear makes people do stupid things. Like voting Republican.. ~ Ian Reifowitz

                        by mikejay611 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:16:35 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  why do you have to be sitting across from her? (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        mikejay611, vpd4

                        the comment is right here and you can address her here.  Just like you're magically able to make the time to constantly troll and defend whatever rightwing, GOP, racist comments that other trolls post--or maybe engage in another round of bashing progressives on a progressive site.  
                        Another one of your hypocritical habits is whining about the characterizations of conservatives, because it doesn't match up with whatever your subjective, vague, poorly defined notion of a "conservative" is--while at the same time making ignorant, stereotypical, or strawman statements against progressives.

                        you can shit on my face but that doesn't mean I have to lick my lips

                        by red rabbit on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:55:28 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                •  "inevitable one" (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  TomP, dinotrac, mikejay611, moviemeister76

                  yeah, never thought much of this commenter based on previous comments, but she's just proudly flying the racist banner now, leaving no doubt.  She'll still have a handful of rightwing, racist, authoritarian, and GOP supporters here.

                  you can shit on my face but that doesn't mean I have to lick my lips

                  by red rabbit on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:40:29 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  a lot is lost on you (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                moviemeister76, Vita Brevis, TomP, ks1

                Oh if we only made an effort to understand and engage with the racist old granny who doesn't see any problems in her little corner of the world, surely she would come around!   If only everyone else bent over backwards not to offend her delicate sensibilities while she engages in longwinded, not-so-well-veiled racist rants, we could make real progress!  Or maybe it's better not to waste time and resources trying to change the mind of an old racist living somewhere that discrimination and police brutality don't exist, because most of the population is the same race and therefore doesn't have to deal with all the unpleasantness that she only has to read about, and instead focus on the areas where the problem is deadly real.
                Old racist greenbell also sounds like a bitter old PUMA who still can't stand that the uppity boy was chosen by the American people, twice, so that doesn't help much either.
                Botton line, trying to engage with her is like trying to change Foxnews or get teabaggers to vote Democratic--a waste of limited time and resources when there's a chance for positive change elswhere.  

                you can shit on my face but that doesn't mean I have to lick my lips

                by red rabbit on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:36:33 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  She is saying (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                TomP, ChadmanFL

                that in her white world it has never happened... therefore.. it has never happened to anyone in this world.  The bubble she lives in is shared by many of her ilk.

                However, I don't think she is who she says; but she is a troll and may not even be a she.

                "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

                by cowdab on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:13:49 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Minnesota is progressive in many ways and Minne... (0+ / 0-)

            Minnesota is progressive in many ways and Minneapolis is doing an incredible job at trying to address racial issues compared to other states. Grdenbell is someone who has no idea about this side of her own state and is ignorant of the path taken to have the kind of blissful law enforecemnt environment she lives in. As a black man in Minneapolis I have to say this place is amazing compared to so many other quote unquote liberal cities. Its not perfect but they are trying. greenbell has no real clue about this side of her state and is therefore able to defend police and probably is a democrat to boot.

      •  Um people had a choice, people (6+ / 0-)

        voted (twice) so "the INEVITABLE ONE " (in caps no less)? WTF? Latent issues from 2007-2008?

        And bully for you on your reality. Glad for you. Truly. Really glad that you have never had first hand experience with some of the issues being discussed. Wouldn't wish them on anyone. Thing is, you did nothing to earn it other than being born in your skin just like others have done nothing to deserve the treatment they've received except being born in theirs.

        We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

        by Vita Brevis on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 08:55:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Your old mumpsimus (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP
        You expect me to erase over 60 years of my own experience and put on another reality and why would I do that?
        There isn't my reality and your reality. There's just reality. The police do some good things in some places. And they do some bad things in some places. And just because you haven't been in those places and seen the bad things with your own eyes doesn't make them any less real. Do you believe in Mount Everest? Have you ever been there?

        There is ample evidence, to anyone who cares to open their eyes, that something is very wrong. Just because it isn't wrong everywhere, at all times, should not mean that you refuse to see what is wrong.

        ... why would I do that?  What is in it for me?
        There is a wonderful story about a local priest in some remote rural parish, back in the days when priests gave the mass in Latin. And this priest wasn't so well versed in Latin, but he had learned the mass by heart, and he had learned it wrong. At one point, he used the word "mumpsimus", which isn't a word at all, but that was the way he had memorized it.

        One day, the bishop came to his church and heard him perform the mass, and afterwards the bishop took him aside and told him, "Father, you did very well, but at one point you said, 'Mumpsimus'. Surely you know the word is actually 'Sumpsimus'?"

        And the priest, who had been giving the mass (wrong) the same way for years and years, replied, "I refuse to give up my old mumpsimus for your new sumpsimus!"

        By the way, who is the "INEVITABLE ONE"?

        La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues, et de voler du pain.

        by dconrad on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:19:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  But police treat different people differently (7+ / 0-)

        How hard is that to understand?  Much easier if you live in an integrated community and know black people, particularly young men.  But still.

        This is not zero sum.  It does not detract in any way from the validity of your experience to acknowledge that people who have a skin color different from you are treated differently by the police.

        Don't bet your future on 97% of climate scientists being wrong. Take action on climate now!

        by Mimikatz on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:25:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  This little old white lady lives a life similar to (5+ / 0-)

        yours, and thinks you're full of sh*t! Do you honestly think we're who we are just because we're so special and worthy? We didn't do a darn thing to earn our privilege - we just got real lucky! We could just as easily have been on of the old ladies we see in pictures, holding a dying grandchild in our laps due to war or starvation or disease. You don't deserve what you have and you won't until you develop a heart and a conscience. My 2 cents.

      •  It also reeks of wearing blinders (5+ / 0-)

        Seriously, I understand your reality.  I'm a white guy who lives in a nice suburb in Texas with a good police department.  My interactions with that local police department have been decent -- and rare.  I appreciate that.

        But I'm not so narrow that I can't understand that it is otherwise for other people.  Not all police departments are as good as the one in the town that I live in.  For that matter, the experience that I've had is based on interaction with a limited number of cops, and there could conceivably be some "bad apples" within the local police department.  And I can recognize that some of those police officers might react to me differently were I black or Hispanic.

        It takes nothing whatsoever away from my own personal experience for me to acknowledge and accept that others can have a different experience.  And to recognize that their experiences are every bit as real as mine.

        You might want to give that a try, instead of retreating behind a thick layer of Minnesota stubborn.

        If Democrats proclaim the the Earth is round and Republicans insist it is flat, we will shortly see a column in the Washington Post claiming the the earth is really a semi-circle.

        by TexasTom on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:25:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But it's only the other experience we've been (0+ / 0-)

          hearing here for two weeks.  Everyone keep reinforcing the same narrative over and over and over again.  But the problem is not merely that others are white, it's that we live in a different reality and there is no pragmatic reason whatever for me to change what works for me.  People howl that I am racist for simply reporting the bad news, which is actually good news, that some communities work well and people are happy and feel well served by their local governments.  

          If you come knock on my door and rant at me about the police do you think that gets my vote or my neighbor's vote?  Of course not.

          So while Democrats are going into Labor Day running against the police, they're probably losing a Senate seat in Iowa and if the local and state DFL party wasn't so darn strong in Minnesota they'd be losing a seat here because like MO and IA we're over 80% white.  We are the voters you have.  You can wish you had other voters but that's as magical as thinking white privilege is going to motivate white voters to do anything but join the Republican Party.

          •  Heh (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TomP, red rabbit, ChadmanFL, stringer bell

            No, we call you a racist because that's what you are. I feel so sorry for you. To live your life and think the way you do must require you to deliberately remain blind to so much of life. What a shallow existence you must live to be able to maintain your beliefs.

            Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

            by moviemeister76 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:16:30 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  local politics (4+ / 0-)

            who's saying that candidates in certain regions should be ranting against the cops?  In case you haven't notice, this site covers national politics and issues around the country, and the thing about your attitude that bothers so many people is your "I'm fine, so fuck anyone who isn't" attitude.

            Think that we should care more about entitlements?  Why the fuck should I give two shits whether old white racists like you receive SS or Medicare?  I don't receive it, and don't know if I'll live to, so why should I continue to support the withholding from my hard earned pay?  I'm just fine, so next time you consider posting complaints about entitlement issues, take it somewhere else.  We got enough old people sucking at the public teat.
            Sound selfish and ageist?  Maybe you'll know how others here feel reading your nonsense.  Or maybe not, since you obviously don't care about anyone or anything outside your little white oasis.    

            you can shit on my face but that doesn't mean I have to lick my lips

            by red rabbit on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:06:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  But you are not the one making change in Minnes... (0+ / 0-)

            But you are not the one making change in Minnesota. Obama praised Minneapolis police for a reason and that's be ause effort is beingade to address racial issues without making an enemy of las enforcement. Your blissful experience is based on the hard work and brave strides across racial and cultural divde by others in your state. You clearly have no idea about what is happening in your state which is hilarious considering it has the largest east African and Laotian population in the country...

      •  the problem doesn't affect you personally (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        moviemeister76, vpd4, TomP, bryduck

        so why should you give a shit about anyone else outside of your little sphere of reality?  Well, I have this thing called concern for my fellow citizens, where I demand change even if I'm not experiencing a problem directly or personally.  Something called empathy, or at least making an effort to understand another person's perspective, that selfish, thoughtless racists like you clearly lack.

        you can shit on my face but that doesn't mean I have to lick my lips

        by red rabbit on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:43:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  This little old white lady knows (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        red rabbit, TomP

        when and where to vote as well.  It will be at my precinct and it will be a straight Democratic vote.  You, my dear, may go straight to....  well your undoubtedly all white precinct and do the same.
        I am not better than you but a damn sight smarter.

        "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

        by cowdab on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:00:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  My reality is white skin (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP, stringer bell

        and generally positive interactions with police too. But I can recognize rank brutality and injustice when I see it. I can also empathize with the parents of a murdered child regardless of their ethnic background. And I don't need a policeman to arrest ME for fitting a profile, beat ME up, or shoot me or my children before I decide that those things are wrong. I would hope most little old white ladies would be appalled by the killing of this young man by a police officer.

    •  not all white people think like this (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TomP, ChadmanFL

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