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View Diary: Israel and Gaza agree to an extended cease-fire on terms that seem to please no one (60 comments)

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  •  If so, it would be appear to be an apartheid state (5+ / 0-)

    When will the Palestinians get the right to vote?

    Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

    by HoundDog on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 08:11:43 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  A better question would be: (6+ / 0-)

      How long will the non-Jewish populations of Israel continue to be allowed to live in The Jewish State?

      "Transfer," anyone?

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 08:45:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I know that someone else will say it (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Timaeus

        So I might as well beat them to it. Non-Jewish populations will likely continue to live in Israel indefinitely. They don't consider the O.T. to be "Israel" (yet).

        Anyhow, there's no place to transfer them to. It's ironic, but at a cost of 20% of what the US is going to shell out for the Iraq War, $100,000 per person could have been given in funds for transfer. A family of eight could have been given $800,000 to set up somewhere else.

        Here's an idea, let's give the entire population of the OT immigrant visas to the US, buy each family a house free and clear, and set them up in the business of their choice, or alternatively, send members of their families through college.

        It would be cheaper in the long run, and there wouldn't be anything left to fight over.

        It would also drive AIPAC nuts if the US accepted close to 5 million Palestinians.

        … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

        by mosesfreeman on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 09:04:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I doubt AIPAC would care if they lived here; (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          poco, JesseCW

          they could easily be prevented from forming any kind of viable voting bloc, after all.  And removing them from Israel being the paramount goal anyway . . .

          Of course, there's no way the USA would pay to move such a manifestly undesirable population here anyway.  Didn't they all dance on 9/11?  (I wish I were snarking about American attitudes, but I'm not.)  And why would we pay for their college educations when we don't pay for the college educations of our own citizens?

          And of course, the Palestinians could always be "transferred" to Jordan, which, after all, is according to Israeli propaganda the state intended for the Arabs of the region anyway.   Jordan of course doesn't want them, but we have ways of bringing our client monarchs to heel when push comes to shove.

          It'll happen eventually; the time and opportunity haven't quite arrived yet.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 09:10:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It should be noted (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            poco, Richard Villiers, Portlaw

            that Palestinians have a distinct accent, they are not Jordanians, Egyptians, Syrians or Lebanese, despite Israeli propaganda to the contrary. Jordan accepted more than it's share already, more still could lead to political instability. Ditto for Lebanon.

            … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

            by mosesfreeman on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 09:22:08 AM PDT

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            •  Don't think for a minute (4+ / 0-)

              that Jordanian instability bothers us all that much.  In fact, all that money we give Jordan is, just like the money we give Egypt, is (1) a reward for playing along with our (and Israel's) MENA policies; (2) primarily military aid; and (3) used to keep the populations of those countries firmly under heel.

              In short, we pay for Egyptian and Jordanian repression of internal dissent.

              Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

              by corvo on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 09:54:29 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  European Jews are compensated for property stolen (5+ / 0-)

          during the Holocaust. Why shouldn't Palestinians be compensated in the same manner for property stolen during the Nakba?

          "The Democrats and the Republicans are equally corrupt where money is concerned. It's only in the amount where the Republicans excel." ~ Will Rogers

          by Lefty Coaster on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 09:28:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I witnessed ethnic cleansing in Bulgaria in 1989 (0+ / 0-)

            They were evicting the Muslims (ethnic Turks). It was bad and unjustified, but at the end of the day, there isn't ethnic strife there now, and it was accomplished without bloodshed, as far as I know.

            The Greeks and the Turks had a similar arrangement in the early twentieth century, exchanging populations. Everyone knows a Greek family with ties to the eastern Aegean, or further east, and likewise many Turks trace their roots to points further west, but they aren't killing each other anymore.

            Transfer wouldn't be the worst option, if the alternative is continuous bloodshed and death.

            … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

            by mosesfreeman on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 09:39:35 AM PDT

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            •  using that argument (0+ / 0-)

              one could just as easily demand the eviction of Jews from the Near East.

              Sure you want to play that game?

              Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

              by corvo on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 10:15:17 AM PDT

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              •  The motivation for the comment (0+ / 0-)

                comes from disgust and fatigue at the relentless march of death across Palestine. Is transfer a good option? Hell NO! Is it better than slow and inevitable death? Maybe. I don't know anymore.

                The point is, this shit has to stop.

                … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

                by mosesfreeman on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 10:29:31 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I believe the choice between (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Portlaw, callmecassandra, poco, JesseCW

                  being victims of "transfer" and "slow and inevitable death" is one that should be left up to the Palestinians.  Advocating their forcible resettlement in the USA would be, of course, just another form of transfer.

                  In other words, the choice as to whether they should suffer on their own land, or die on it, is theirs; and it's not our job to do Israel's dirty work for her.

                  Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                  by corvo on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 10:32:25 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Of course it should be their choice (0+ / 0-)

                    the fact is, right now most have no choice. They are caught in a no-win situation, with no place to go.

                    We sit comfortably in our spots in the west, pontificating about what "ought to be" and they are suffering in a position without options.

                    No place will harbor them, no place will protect them, they are at the mercy of the IDF every minute of their lives.

                    At the very least, they should be offered an option to emigrate.

                    Yes, it fits the Israeli narrative, but if you lived there, and had kids, wouldn't you want at least the option to leave? The vast majority haven't even got that option. They are forced to stay in place, and accept whatever Israel throws at them.

                    … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

                    by mosesfreeman on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 10:48:59 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  maybe; (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      JesseCW
                      Yes, it fits the Israeli narrative, but if you lived there, and had kids, wouldn't you want at least the option to leave?
                      or maybe I'd want the Israelis to leave.  Which, of course, corresponds with anyone's notion of law and justice except those of the Israelis and the Americans.

                      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                      by corvo on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 10:57:39 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  My point is (0+ / 0-)

                        that the west should allow emigration from Gaza on humanitarian grounds. That would mean host countries willing to accept them.

                        Without that, they are prisoners in a no-win game. They have no choices.

                        … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

                        by mosesfreeman on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 11:11:30 AM PDT

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                        •  The West should also force Israel (4+ / 0-)

                          to abide by international law.  Anyone should be able to live anywhere; but Israel must be made to behave like a responsible state.

                          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                          by corvo on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 03:26:16 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  The Christians in the ME face a similar dilemma (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Lefty Coaster

                      Except that for them, there are (for the most part), places to go that will receive them.

                      I can say that there are Christians in Mount Lebanon who wouldn't leave under any circumstances, they would be dead on the floor before they would ever abandon their land.

                      It's a choice they make, but the fact is, they HAVE a choice. Palestinians have no such choice. There is no alternative for them. Desperation breeds fanaticism, is it any wonder that Hamas is popular in Gaza?

                      … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

                      by mosesfreeman on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 11:04:36 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  Ethnic Cleansing "Wouldn't be the worst option". (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mosesfreeman

              This is where Lesser Evilism takes you.

              Sadly, it's not even close to the end of that path.

              "Former" Republicans never are. People prone to supporting profound injustice don't morph into people capable of telling right from wrong.

              by JesseCW on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 04:43:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Close to a million Jews (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            buffan, mosesfreeman, JNEREBEL

            whose families had lived in Islamic countries for thousands of years were forced out of their homelands after the UN Resolution. About 3 million Israeli citizens are either those individuals or their children. They constitute about half of Israel's Jewish population. Why aren't you advocating for them getting compensated, too, by the countries that forced them out, fire bombed their homes, businesses and synagogues? As to the  Jews being compensated for their property stolen during the Holocaust-- that came a bit late for 6 million of them. For the others, the so-called compensation has been minimal to non-existent. If you have actual evidence to the contrary, please share it with the rest of us.

        •  Yeah. Let's help ethnically cleanse a people from (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          poco

          their land.

          That's cool.

          "Former" Republicans never are. People prone to supporting profound injustice don't morph into people capable of telling right from wrong.

          by JesseCW on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 04:40:48 PM PDT

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          •  You'd rather let Israel (0+ / 0-)

            slowly grind them to dust?

            There aren't a lot of good options here. My point is that Palestinians, for the most part, have no options at all.

            … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

            by mosesfreeman on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 05:14:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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