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View Diary: Israel and Gaza agree to an extended cease-fire on terms that seem to please no one (60 comments)

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  •  I witnessed ethnic cleansing in Bulgaria in 1989 (0+ / 0-)

    They were evicting the Muslims (ethnic Turks). It was bad and unjustified, but at the end of the day, there isn't ethnic strife there now, and it was accomplished without bloodshed, as far as I know.

    The Greeks and the Turks had a similar arrangement in the early twentieth century, exchanging populations. Everyone knows a Greek family with ties to the eastern Aegean, or further east, and likewise many Turks trace their roots to points further west, but they aren't killing each other anymore.

    Transfer wouldn't be the worst option, if the alternative is continuous bloodshed and death.

    … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

    by mosesfreeman on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 09:39:35 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  using that argument (0+ / 0-)

      one could just as easily demand the eviction of Jews from the Near East.

      Sure you want to play that game?

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 10:15:17 AM PDT

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      •  The motivation for the comment (0+ / 0-)

        comes from disgust and fatigue at the relentless march of death across Palestine. Is transfer a good option? Hell NO! Is it better than slow and inevitable death? Maybe. I don't know anymore.

        The point is, this shit has to stop.

        … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

        by mosesfreeman on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 10:29:31 AM PDT

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        •  I believe the choice between (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Portlaw, callmecassandra, poco, JesseCW

          being victims of "transfer" and "slow and inevitable death" is one that should be left up to the Palestinians.  Advocating their forcible resettlement in the USA would be, of course, just another form of transfer.

          In other words, the choice as to whether they should suffer on their own land, or die on it, is theirs; and it's not our job to do Israel's dirty work for her.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 10:32:25 AM PDT

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          •  Of course it should be their choice (0+ / 0-)

            the fact is, right now most have no choice. They are caught in a no-win situation, with no place to go.

            We sit comfortably in our spots in the west, pontificating about what "ought to be" and they are suffering in a position without options.

            No place will harbor them, no place will protect them, they are at the mercy of the IDF every minute of their lives.

            At the very least, they should be offered an option to emigrate.

            Yes, it fits the Israeli narrative, but if you lived there, and had kids, wouldn't you want at least the option to leave? The vast majority haven't even got that option. They are forced to stay in place, and accept whatever Israel throws at them.

            … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

            by mosesfreeman on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 10:48:59 AM PDT

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            •  maybe; (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JesseCW
              Yes, it fits the Israeli narrative, but if you lived there, and had kids, wouldn't you want at least the option to leave?
              or maybe I'd want the Israelis to leave.  Which, of course, corresponds with anyone's notion of law and justice except those of the Israelis and the Americans.

              Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

              by corvo on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 10:57:39 AM PDT

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              •  My point is (0+ / 0-)

                that the west should allow emigration from Gaza on humanitarian grounds. That would mean host countries willing to accept them.

                Without that, they are prisoners in a no-win game. They have no choices.

                … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

                by mosesfreeman on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 11:11:30 AM PDT

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                •  The West should also force Israel (4+ / 0-)

                  to abide by international law.  Anyone should be able to live anywhere; but Israel must be made to behave like a responsible state.

                  Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                  by corvo on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 03:26:16 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  The Christians in the ME face a similar dilemma (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Lefty Coaster

              Except that for them, there are (for the most part), places to go that will receive them.

              I can say that there are Christians in Mount Lebanon who wouldn't leave under any circumstances, they would be dead on the floor before they would ever abandon their land.

              It's a choice they make, but the fact is, they HAVE a choice. Palestinians have no such choice. There is no alternative for them. Desperation breeds fanaticism, is it any wonder that Hamas is popular in Gaza?

              … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

              by mosesfreeman on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 11:04:36 AM PDT

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    •  Ethnic Cleansing "Wouldn't be the worst option". (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mosesfreeman

      This is where Lesser Evilism takes you.

      Sadly, it's not even close to the end of that path.

      "Former" Republicans never are. People prone to supporting profound injustice don't morph into people capable of telling right from wrong.

      by JesseCW on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 04:43:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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